Wyvern - Movement needs to be modifed. It's currently way too weak for $550.
Changeling - Need to be swap within 5 not 6.
Doppleganger - whenever a dopple is hurt, it's max HP is reduced to whatever it was damaged for. Aka, if the original gets hurt, then the clone will become that HP not the original.
Armory - Every 3 or 4 turns, can give 1 unit +1 power (casting within range 2)
Conjurer - Range of Casting to 3. Both portals only have range 3.
Sergeant - Unit must be retargeted each turn.
Quote from: mongolian on August 06, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
Wyvern - Movement needs to be modifed. It's currently way too weak for $550.
I agree it needs something more. I think two attacks and attacks that completely remove the unit from the game (eaten) so the knight would not dismount or the berserk would not survive another round.
Quote from: mongolian on August 06, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
Changeling - Need to be swap within 5 not 6.
Totally agree.
Quote from: mongolian on August 06, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
Doppleganger - whenever a dopple is hurt, it's max HP is reduced to whatever it was damaged for. Aka, if the original gets hurt, then the clone will become that HP not the original.
I think the Dopp seems fine how it is right now.
Quote from: mongolian on August 06, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
Armory - Every 3 or 4 turns, can give 1 unit +1 power (casting within range 2)
Great idea, the Armory needs something more.
Quote from: mongolian on August 06, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
Conjurer - Range of Casting to 3. Both portals only have range 3.
Portals have already been changed to range 3 and casting them is range 3 as well. Need to see how the gate plays with range 4, maybe it should just be cast within range 3.
Quote from: mongolian on August 06, 2009, 03:47:30 PM
Sergeant - Unit must be retargeted each turn.
Good idea for the sergeant.
wyverns swallow ability shouldd become a passive one, I meen it gobbels something down to eat it, nonw unless your trying to tell me that the wyvern is picky (something all lore about wyverns contredict) this SHOULD also affect inoganic units aswell as organic ones, reduce hatching time to 2 turns
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE
Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes
Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.
Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes
Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all
Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units
Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power
General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed
Artificer - Need a defesive ability as it is now it is practically helpless, and not even close to units like wizard or enchanter, add recharge on inorging if you have to just get it a defensive ability
Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed
Quote from: Lunaraia on August 11, 2009, 09:03:59 PM
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE
Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes
Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.
Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes
Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all
Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units
Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power
General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed
Artificer - Need a defesive ability as it is now it is practically helpless, and not even close to units like wizard or enchanter, add recharge on inorging if you have to just get it a defensive ability
Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed
towers - agreed
Barracks - agreed they need to be buffed. 2 actions or 100 points
Arch Angel - inability to capture castle would be fine, it is supposed to be mostly support anyway. i would really hope it can't die from wyvern though considering it is supposed to be immortal
Channeler - they suck up a lot of commands for all that power. sure a warlock is comparable, but those extra points are getting used in command, and then your base is more congested. they are underused if anything....
Shield Maiden - agreed, shield maiden should take the poison. If you get hit by a poison arrow why does the arrow hurt the maiden but the poison on the tip of the arrow poisons the other unit?
Changeling - Agreed, you would have to protect your changling better. Would keep it more interesting
Longbowman - 4 power would balance this unit perfectly.
Artificer - Agreed, but only a very weak attack. It would be nice to have some sort of attack, even if it was 2 range 3 power or something
Spirit - Agreed, 1 possibly 2 power. Very annoying unit to have on the battlefield, ruins the fun of the game if they have all that power. Mostly needs to be dropped below 3 so that it cannot pierce heavy armor. I am not a fan of this unit at all, but if it must stay, lower the damage
Quote from: JoeMaster on August 12, 2009, 04:18:49 AM
Channeler - they suck up a lot of commands for all that power. sure a warlock is comparable, but those extra points are getting used in command, and then your base is more congested. they are underused if anything....
perhaps but ad a command post and voila commands are no longer an issue specially since channeler armies tend to be semi defensive annd use many turns just hanging in the back charging their power
Quote from: Lunaraia on August 11, 2009, 09:03:59 PM
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE
Can't say I agree-they can present a serious hurdle in random as is.
Quote
Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes
The barracks is good for what it is- a cheap source of summoned units. I've used it regularly when I want to feed a diabolist/confessor/mourner when I don't want to spend 100/200 more construction points on a druid/summoner/necromancer.
Quote
Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.
The Aegis or effective immortality could stand to be weakened somewhat-perhaps remove the immortality and give it paladin style survivability.
Quote
Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes
The channeler should probably cost 50 more points.
Quote
Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all
Magical protection!
Quote
Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units
So I can swap for someone's dragon, kill the changling I used, and laugh at the 150 for 550 point swap I just made?
Quote
Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power
The longbowman is a superb defender- I've lost several games to longbowman-empowered soldiers/generals.
Quote
General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed
The general should be able to give 2 extra commands once a game.
Quote
Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed
350 points is quite a bit for a slow moving, 3 power(albeit invincible) unit. I think it's fine as is.
Changeling needs 5 range swap vs 6. This makes him more reasonable as it can fall within 5 ranged units. 6 range is just too much.
Barracks. I could see Barracks as a 100 pt unit, but 2 summons a turn is a bit too much, but a 100 pt barracks seems too cheap. A 100 pt barracks, needs to have soldiers with 1 less hp or armor then.
Channeler is fine as is. It costs alot of actions and takes a while to get working. It's a feasable unit that only gets exploited when someone doesn't what they are doing or used in extreme conditions.
Shield Maiden Is perfect as is. No need to redirect poison from an assassin.
General would be nice to see +1 power and 1 less action. Maybe just +1 or +2 hp would be a better solution though.
Magus's Spirit is yes a crazy unit. I don't mind it's 2 actions, but maybe it should only be able to attack once per turn. Or give it +1 power and only one action.
Longbowman Just feels too expensive to me..idk Maybe $50 less.
towers - Not really a fan of towers in general, I think they are fine as is.
Barracks - Two solders a turn would be too much, Barracks only cost 150, they are a good cheap summoning unit.
Arch Angel - removing it's ability to capture the castle would not make it less powerful. Maybe it needs more offense but no immortality.
Channeler - I agree the channeler is one of the most over powered units. Not sure what it needs exactly. Maybe it should start with 2 power but only game 1 per turn?
Changeling - I think changing range from 6 to 5 will make a big difference.
Longbowman - Not sure about the Longbowman, have not tested it enough.
General - +1 power might be the boost the general needs.
Artificer - I think the artificer is plenty powerful. Mages are not supposed to have defensive abilities, they are mages.
Spirit - I think this unit is fine considering everything out there, its limited power and actions don't make it that much of a threat
Quote from: Chronic Logic - Josiah on August 13, 2009, 06:13:58 PM
towers - Not really a fan of towers in general, I think they are fine as is.
Barracks - Two solders a turn would be too much, Barracks only cost 150, they are a good cheap summoning unit.
Artificer - I think the artificer is plenty powerful. Mages are not supposed to have defensive abilities, they are mages.
Spirit - I think this unit is fine considering everything out there, its limited power and actions don't make it that much of a threat
Towers - after being added up 50 has made random the only time they are hardly used, and as is in my opinion they just aint worth it
Artificer - there are plenty og mages with defensive abilities 1 of em are enchanter, give the artificer a range 2 single unit stun, with it's single action it will be able to either support or protect itself wont get to powerful yet still will be able to do something to aid out even after all units have been made inorganic and whatnot
Spirit - As I said the bane of ANY army relying on Siege units or Structures, seriously 1 spirit would tear sutch armies apart even with an artificer there the siege units would have to move or et blasted to nothing on the following turn after the spirit stops near em, rendering them completely useless, and buildings would be hurt every turn forcing the artificer if any is on the field to constantly repair instead of making more inorgs and boosting armor, and that is IF you have one, and even if you do nothing will prevent the spirit from targeting it and even with 2 armor it wouldn't survive more then 1 round unless it kept on moving and then it is only till the spirit manages to corner it meanwhile the rest of the units will be able to act to but the inorganic units would not be repaired nor boosted meaning that they would be smashed pretty fast since sutch armies normaly rely on repairs to sruvive in the long run... solution 2 power end of story
My problem with the conjurer wasn't necessarily the range; it was(and is) the fact that there is no clean way to destroy the portals without inorganics. When someone destroys a portal, they more or less know that that unit is a goner.
That would be alright-if portals couldn't be resummoned each turn. You kill one, lose a unit, and then another one pops right up. You can try and rush the conjurer, but this is a crapshoot-portal placement alone can create a substantial obstacle to attacking units(either by blocking a path itself, or using the unit that just destroyed it to block the path) and a pikeman or tower ends a rush dead in its tracks. Even if you manage to land that satisfying killing blow on the conjurer, you've probably sacrificed several units to do so(probably more construction points than the conjurer was worth). Of course, you can't sit back and hope to maneuver around it-the longer you wait, the more cluttered the playing field becomes with portals. I don't think I've lost a random where I was given a conjurer, and I doubt I've won more than one when my opponent received one.
In summary, do away with this 'suck in and stun' nonsense.
Quote from: Lunaraia on August 14, 2009, 04:38:27 PM
Towers - after being added up 50 has made random the only time they are hardly used, and as is in my opinion they just aint worth it
Artificer - there are plenty og mages with defensive abilities 1 of em are enchanter, give the artificer a range 2 single unit stun, with it's single action it will be able to either support or protect itself wont get to powerful yet still will be able to do something to aid out even after all units have been made inorganic and whatnot
Spirit - As I said the bane of ANY army relying on Siege units or Structures, seriously 1 spirit would tear sutch armies apart even with an artificer there the siege units would have to move or et blasted to nothing on the following turn after the spirit stops near em, rendering them completely useless, and buildings would be hurt every turn forcing the artificer if any is on the field to constantly repair instead of making more inorgs and boosting armor, and that is IF you have one, and even if you do nothing will prevent the spirit from targeting it and even with 2 armor it wouldn't survive more then 1 round unless it kept on moving and then it is only till the spirit manages to corner it meanwhile the rest of the units will be able to act to but the inorganic units would not be repaired nor boosted meaning that they would be smashed pretty fast since sutch armies normaly rely on repairs to sruvive in the long run... solution 2 power end of story
Towers:
The last few constructed games I have played were vs people using towers. They can be used to help protect units that need time to develop your army which is a good use, however having so many that you can't advance at all encourage games that stall and no one is willing to mount an offensive which is exactly what we would like to avoid.
Artificer:
Can make it's self inorganic and give 2 armor and heal it's self. That is something defensive.
Spirit:
I was never a fan of the Spirit and complained about it since the beginner but I really don't see it being a problem anymore. What you describe is exactly the point of the Spirit, keep people from sitting back and drawing games out for hours making every unit inorganic with 2 armor or summing dozens of soldiers or lining up more towers then anyone can deal with. That said the Spirit still can't do that great of a job of breaking a siege because if you have a Artificer for your inorganic units you can easily up their armor to two before the Spirit can get close and then you can heal them, even if it costs your action every turn that is fine as the spirit and the Artificer both cost 350 so one taking up all the others actions is not a problem. If you have a healer, mason, any healing unit with a couple footman or similar units or anything that can summon units you can block a Spirit and keep it from getting to any of your important units.
in my opinopn Diabolist's target for an explosion should be removed from the game IE can't be reborn, being reborn woulnd't make sence since the soul was used to blow the target up, no soul no rebirth, mekes sence no?
When the unit return the diabolist do not gain the soul... Longbowman is perfect, please dont make it stronger.
Quoteif you have a Artificer for your inorganic units you can easily up their armor to two before the Spirit
This is so wrong in many ways. Let's think about random a bit more here. Not like we get a choice of what we get. 2ndly, an artficer is generally a terrable unit to draw in random (waste of 350 in most scenarios). Lastly and most importantly, let's say I do draw an artficer vs your spirit. Let me guess which side of the coin you want to be on??? spirit. And this is the your best counter answer? Why is this bad, I can run all the way up to your artficer (With 2 armor). It will die soon enough and you will never have enough to clear your lines, unless an all out offense present's it self. That's not logical at all.
Options for Spirit:
(1) 1 action but power 4, 5 or 6.
(2) 2 actions but can only attack once. (maybe change power to 4).
(3) In X amount of turns (maybe 10) Spirit will revert back to Magus form and will be tapped.
Quote from: mongolian on August 28, 2009, 05:58:58 PM
In X amount of turns (maybe 10) Spirit will revert back to Magus form and will be tapped.
That looks a good idea to me. I do not think 10 turns would be enought, maybe 20 turns. 10 turns is not enought to do anything with a slow magus.
Sounds more fear, but it can leave the magus in quite the pickle, perhaps indistructable unit the beginning of his next turn so that he can get of 1 last act?, and add a Recharge to his spirit ability that way u can atleast try to get him to safety ^^
It took me a while to gather up enough courage to post in this thread since I am far more inexperienced than you guys, but here it is:
Magus/Spirit: How about returning to castle after 10 turns? So it is mostly used to protect the Magus and stop gap defense (when rushed), not destroy an opponent's low armor army. In return, allow it to move the turn it is changed into spirit form.
Artificer: change existing spell to: repair all allied inorganics up to 2 damages. Also change existing spell to: increase armor of one inorganic unit by 1. Add new spell: completely repair one inorganic unit. Also add new spell: create guardian once per game: Guardian= 2 life, 2 armor, 3 power, range 2, inorganic, immobile. This should make it more versatile but less extreme when used with a golem (or other high life units) army.
Hydra: cannot be rallied, but attacks use no more than one command (free after first attack).
Warrior: +2 damage to inorganics. Do not gain action points on killing inorganics.
Wyvern: devour works on inorganics. eggs are inorganic, 1 armor and 3 life.
Wyvern = agree, Warrior = powerful enough as it is, it's not suppose to be able to wipe out golems in 1 go by ignoring their armor, also it dosn't gain actions from killing inorgs, Artificer= what u suggest makes it even more powerful then it already is XD Hydra= would remove some pretty nasty exploits, but the implimention of something like free after 1 use would be pretty hard, not to mention overpowered Magus = would be a posibility, but im not sure if that'd be doable since the spirit is immune to everything, this would also include it's own abilities
Quote from: Rudolf on October 09, 2009, 03:55:58 PM
Magus/Spirit: How about returning to castle after 10 turns? So it is mostly used to protect the Magus and stop gap defense (when rushed), not destroy an opponent's low armor army. In return, allow it to move the turn it is changed into spirit form.
I suppose I'm of the general dissenting opinion that I don't think there's any problem with the current incarnation of the spirit; there are very few situations in which I would prefer to deal with magus stun/wisps rather than the same magus in spirit form.
I think your suggestion might be actually make the magus/spirit more powerful; right now, swapping to spirit form is a very drastic move that a player should take awhile to consider. If you could get the spirit to return back to the castle, you would only need to temporarily forsake wisps/stun while you go pick off your opponent's weaker units.
Quote
Artificer: change existing spell to: repair all allied inorganics up to 2 damages. Also change existing spell to: increase armor of one inorganic unit by 1. Add new spell: completely repair one inorganic unit. Also add new spell: create guardian once per game: Guardian= 2 life, 2 armor, 3 power, range 2, inorganic, immobile. This should make it more versatile but less extreme when used with a golem (or other high life units) army.
High life armies tend to be relatively easy to maneuver around, and the artificer is quite susceptible to a rush armies. It might be a tad strong in 1v1 situations, but less so that a conjurer or wizard. I do, however, dislike the fact that it 'completely' shuts down a wide variety of units(spellcasters/units that stun/fanatic/units that poison). I might be amenable to a cheaper artificer that cannot make units inorganic, or for a weaker 'inorganic' ability, whereby units because invulnerable only to spells.
It's also unfortunate that the almost guaranteed presence of an artificer in 2v2 limits one's ability to bring spellcasters in. As a side note, I would love to see a 'random' version of 2v2; power combos are way to dominant in the current format.
QuoteHydra: cannot be rallied, but attacks use no more than one command (free after first attack).
I would propose a slight alteration; when the hydra attacks, all available heads necessary to kill the target attack(e.g., if a unit would take two hydra attacks to kill, a the hydra would have two fewer heads available)
Quote
Warrior: +2 damage to inorganics. Do not gain action points on killing inorganics.
While I believe that infantry in general are unwieldy, this seems somewhat arbitrary.
QuoteWyvern: devour works on inorganics. eggs are inorganic, 1 armor and 3 life.
I gather that you've had some bad experiences with inorganics. ;)
This doesn't rectify the fundamental problem with the wyvern; it's a terrible unit against pretty much any army because almost every army can either kill it or disable it before it can escape and reproduce.
[/quote]
Lunaraia/Norsker,
Thank for the feedbacks.
QuoteWarrior = powerful enough as it is, it's not suppose to be able to wipe out golems in 1 go by ignoring their armor/quote]
Shouldn't the warrior be more powerful than the golem 1 on 1 since it is organic and vulnerable to spells/stun/poison etc.? Right now the Golem has an edge (move within 2 to warrior and warrior has to retreat or lose the exchange)
QuoteI gather that you've had some bad experiences with inorganics./quote]
That may be very true ;)
but it is more the case that I share your view that:
QuoteI do, however, dislike the fact that it 'completely' shuts down a wide variety of units(spellcasters/units that stun/fanatic/units that poison)./quote]
logically inorganics shouldn't be affected by poison/spells (and poison/spells are somewhat overpowered against organics, so need inorganics to compensate). Hence my solution of making units like warrior and wyvern, which are also less effective against inorganics, more "anti-inorganic" and compensate by a more versatile (and maybe stronger) Artificer.
QuoteI believe that infantry in general are unwieldy/quote]
I agree, especially they need a lot of commands to be effective. For that reason I think sergeant should stay the way it is now (bar Hydra).
QuoteI would propose a slight alteration; when the hydra attacks, all available heads necessary to kill the target attack(e.g., if a unit would take two hydra attacks to kill, a the hydra would have two fewer heads available)/quote]
I like this.
QuoteThis doesn't rectify the fundamental problem with the wyvern; it's a terrible unit against pretty much any army because almost every army can either kill it or disable it before it can escape and reproduce./quote]
If the challenge facing the wyvern is completely rectified, then it would become too strong! ;)
Hence my proposal of making the challenge easier but not vanish. Maybe I didn't go far enough and the wyvern need to have one extra range (either making devour anywhere <=2 or move 4), but I would have thought that with my changes and with suitable support it can be reasonably effective against any non-spellcasting army
well rudi, when u are a warrior with a matchstick like swordand are facing down a 12 ft. golem of pure iron and fists the size of a trash can (the big ones) who do you think are gonna win?
Quotewell rudi, when u are a warrior with a matchstick like swordand are facing down a 12 ft. golem of pure iron and fists the size of a trash can (the big ones) who do you think are gonna win?/quote]
Of course I would win! You didn't know that Rudolf is a great warrior and would never be stopped by something like a golem! :D
In fact any true warrior should win. The golem is slow while the warrior is nimble and has high perception gained from countless battles. So if he get to attack first he'll hit the critical part of the golem (isn't that the rune on its tommy that animates the iron heap?) - it takes two hits to completely deface the rune - before the golem get the chance to react.
;D
Quote from: Rudolf on October 10, 2009, 06:53:46 AM
Lunaraia/Norsker,
Thank for the feedbacks.
Shouldn't the warrior be more powerful than the golem 1 on 1 since it is organic and vulnerable to spells/stun/poison etc.? Right now the Golem has an edge (move within 2 to warrior and warrior has to retreat or lose the exchange)
The golem is a very slow unit that is pretty easy to harass( an effective attack range of 2 isn't very much), or surround and kill as necessary; its primary value is to provide some cover for other advancing units by forcing the enemy army to either focus on it(leaving the other units unscathed) or take at most one shot before falling back to avoid being crushed by the golem. Keep in mind that the golem, after taking damage, very rarely has the opportunity to regain it; organic units can be healed by the templar, acolyte, abjurer, druid, quartermaster, healer, and alchemist. Bringing down a golem supported by artificer heals is frustrating if you only have low power units to attack it, but think of it this way; golem + artificer cost 550 points-this should leave you a lot of leeway to move around the board with your cheap weak units and take out that artificer. Some constructed armies may be able to support golem + artificer, but hey, that's why I play random for rated games(Too much rock-paper-scissors) .
QuoteI gather that you've had some bad experiences with inorganics./quote]
That may be very true ;)
but it is more the case that I share your view that:
logically inorganics shouldn't be affected by poison/spells (and poison/spells are somewhat overpowered against organics, so need inorganics to compensate).
While an army with at least one spellcaster will do better than one with none, I'm not sure I'd agree that they're overpowered(at least as an aggregate)
Quote
Hence my solution of making units like warrior and wyvern, which are also less effective against inorganics, more "anti-inorganic" and compensate by a more versatile (and maybe stronger) Artificer.
While some units will have an edge over others, I dislike the idea of 'rock-paper-scissors' balancing of units.
Make sure you include the left bracket when you're quoting; there are a lot of quote]s there.
acually the runes of power are for safety reasons placed inside the golem so they can't be distorted that easely, + those runes are usually made out of diamonds, would like to see an iron sword distort that ^^
Lunaraia,
Quote from: Lunaraia on October 11, 2009, 03:55:11 AM
acually the runes of power are for safety reasons placed inside the golem so they can't be distorted that easely, + those runes are usually made out of diamonds, would like to see an iron sword distort that ^^
Not possible. :)
The runes need to be drawn or chiselled onto the Golem and has to be on the surface because the Golem is solid metal and not hollow. ;D
More seriously,
Norsker,
I am not saying that the golem cannot be countered, but that it has an advantage against the other 200pt melee only unit (warrior) 1 on 1 even though the golem is inorganic. I take your point that being inorganic means it cannot be healed in the absence of the artificer, but it still amounts to a great advantage given how powerful some spells/abilities are (and sometimes they ARE accompanied by an artificer even in random). It is true that the warrior has its own much feared ability, but it is also one of the long list of units that fare worse against inorganics - precisely the sort of "rock/paper/scissors" characteristic that you dislike. My suggestion makes the warrior equally effective against inorganics (but in the different way) and so actually reduce the "rock/paper/scissors" characteristic of the game.
I agree that spellcasters need support units to be effective (or to survive) and we seem to agree that a spellcaster, at least in combination with other units, has the advantage over (or more powerful) than a non-spellcasting army. The fact is that spellcasters, with the notable exception of the warlock and the alchemist, are more effective against organic units. In the extreme case of the witch and geomancer, they are ONLY effective against organic units. What I am suggesting is that having non-spellcasting units like wyvern and warrior (maybe even martyr and possessed - but that would be non-thematic ;)) also less effective against inorganics is one reason the game is too "rock/paper/scissors" like. Hence my suggestion to make these units equally effective against inorganics. The specifics I suggested might be off the mark, but I think my general concept is sound.
(Still don't know how to quote individual passages correctly, so left the quotes out ;))
I'd like to devote my next update on units to the real core basic units I'd like to see changed. Most of the units I want tweeked because they just aren't good enough in comparison to their neighbors.
Bowman
Currently: 3/1,
Revised: 4/0 or 3/2 (or even 2/2 with 3 actions). Another option is just making it cost $100 and bring it up to 4/1, 3hp.
Warrior
Currently: $200, 5/2, 5hp
Revised: Either bring it down to $150 with 4hp or it gets +1hp for the $200 version.
Armory
Currently: Give all units +1/+1
Revised: Give all units +1/+1 and Armory will only have 1 permanent target (range1) for a unit to have +1 power. Armory can undo's it's choice to make another choice, but only 1 target can be used a turn.
Wyvern
Currently: Lay an egg (range 1)
Revised: Lay an egg (range 2)
Agree with everything except the bowman. The bowman is extremely useful at 50 points. They can take out an archery one on one and it's hard to defend against more then one of them.
Diplomat is currently one of the most dramatic units in the game. Ideally I'd like to see it receive a new ability vs have your opponent be completely helpless in 1 turn. One of two things should happen:
(1) You can not activate the diplomat's special ability unless you have used no actions on attacking this round or
(2) Change diplomat's price tag to $250-300
I really would like to see archangel's price tag also jump +$50
I agree the Diplomat could use a change. I think the idea about not being about to attack and then use Armistice is a good one.
Quote from: Chronic Logic - Josiah on February 17, 2011, 04:49:24 PM
I agree the Diplomat could use a change. I think the idea about not being about to attack and then use Armistice is a good one.
Will this ever be changed?
It is not currently on the list of changes, but it is something that could be addressed soon.
artificer: I'd love to see this piece get some sort of enhancement.
Someone else mentioned maybe they could stun at a limited distance.
maybe they could alternatively limit motion? slow down a player (entrap?) so they move one less space per turn for a turn?
casting range of like 4?
perhaps they should also be able to "de-mechanize", turn an inorganic unit back to organic. (not buildings of course)
and against an inorganic unit, they should have some power to either destroy completely (disassemble power?)
or massively weaken. within a short range though, maybe two? so they could take out golems, or siege units, or any other clockworks. i would say destroy at range 2 (similar power to a summoner that can capture at range 2, that seems to work well for that piece). if they could only weaken an inorganic, maybe remove shields, or decrease life? perhaps range 4 would work well.
another alternative, maybe the artificer could lay mines? might be an interesting addition.
last alternative. they could almost be like an inorganic priest unit. (they already act as an inorganic "healer") so why not instead of destroy (disassemble power) they could take control of an enemy inorganic unit? since its best if this unit only has one action, the take control would have to have some range, perhaps 4. but it could be limited in how many it could control at once. i would say one, maybe two units.
wyvern: this is another piece that just doesn't seem to live up to its potential.
i agree with others that have mentioned, egg hatching should be shortened to 2 turns.
but perhaps total egg production should be limited over the course of a game? (maybe 5 eggs per wyvern?)
against the AI, the unlimited attack upon approach is fantastic, but against players, this seems too overpowered. perhaps this should be limited to neighborhood of 2-4 attacks? (this is, if the egg hatching time were reduced).
another option is keep the unlimited attack, but perhaps this should be distance of only 1 space. not sure the rationale that this creature can get you at two spaces away. (again, i would only do this if the egg hatching time is reduced)
if space of counter attack is reduced, i might add one more power to this beastie as a balance.
if power remains the same, i might suggest giving it two attacks, instead of the one.
another option with this critter, although this would be a lot more programming work, would be neat if it could build a nest. so all eggs have to be laid there. wyvern has to go feed, but once it feeds, it can choose where to build its nest. nest then would work like a barracks. but maybe these should be wyverlings? not able to reproduce themselves, but capable of eating and attacking like the parent. maybe 2 less life. production would be two wyverlings per "clutch". so upon first feeding, and making the nest, it could produce two wyverlings, over the next two turns. you could then be limited to total of two wyverlings per time. if one gets killed, you would need to have the main wyvern feed again, and return to nest, to recharge egg production.
i know this sounds like a lot of overhead, but it could be really interesting, and it makes it sort of more like a real bird (or dragon-like thing) might do this.