Chronic Logic

You should have a bridge that turns in the next version i.e. around a tall cliff, etc.

LOL you killed the poor thing =)

Brilliant idea, but I wouldn`t like to play it with the current control system tho, I reckon the 3d aspect of the game still needs tweaking. Otherwise I can`t wait. Are u listening CL?

Oh, come on! now we're going to have to use those stupid bankings???
We need to have the track automatically banked when we make a turn!

Note:
If you try using a turning track (w/o banking), the  train goes forward, dropping from the track.

I agree about tweaking the 3d aspect.  May be there could be sides views above views and a front view.  The turning is a great idea.

Klei: Why should it?

If you run the normal levels,  and you somehow get the train off the correct z-coordinate, it will orient itself back towards it automatically.

oops... didn't read this post and just created a new topic which covers the same thing

Whoever mentioned the 3 viewport bridge design scheme was on the right track, so to speak.  :-P  If you're going to make a bridge that doesn't just go in a straight line from point A to B, you're gonna have to have a pretty hardcore editing interface.  The most refined 3d editor that I have ever encountered is, strangely, Worldcraft, which is well known to all Quake II and Halflife mappers.  While less powerful than some, it's very intuitive and obvious how to make stuff.  This sort of thing seems WAAAAY beyond what CL is trying to do with Pontifex though.  A lot of criticism of any extensions to Pontifex is based on the statement that Pontifex is simply about solving the puzzles related to building a bridge for less than X dollars.  In the case of making a true 3d editor, I think that statement is a valid counterargument.  That can definitely wait till Pontifex II.

Maybe just like an UI from some 3D modeling programs: four customable viewports, example top, left , front and perspective ?
But it might need a new game, like pontifex pro ?

Klei, if you want turns using Pontifex 10.19.01, you're going to have to do it my way or come up with a better method. My method is going above and beyond what Pontifex was supposed to be able to do; it's the hallmark of a great construction game if these things are possible. (BB is similar - flying engines are fun!)

You can sit in your corner and say: that's not the way I want to do it. Fine with me. Don't. Wait for a game that does what you want (if there'll ever be one). You'll be losing out on some fun you could be having right now, with this game. I expect with some refinement of this technique, levels that require the train to move sideways will appear soon.

If you ever edited a level, you also know that train tracks are just textures you paste on. Deck is similar - it's just a surface. This game has no rails, physically speaking. You can make a junction ("Weiche", where the track forks) with deck pieces, but the train will move straight. You have to use these surface angles and your ingenuity to effect these turns. If you don't have ingenuity, you shouldn't be playing this game.

Falkon, I thought that the train collides softly with the border of the level (usually only 8 units wide) and that makes it turn back. Must investigate wider levels...

I don't know a ton about computer programming but I think that the physics engine would have some trouble dealing with turns.

The junction thing is exactly what I said earlier.
Plus, I want bridges that start at one place and ends after a 90 Degrree turn.

I can see problems here, at least with tight turns and long trains. There is much more going on  between the cars then :)

Of course we would have to do banked turns for a clean run - would be cool ( but hard to implement and turning the program into a CAD thing as some stated :)

See 180 degree turnaround now! for another way to turn the train.

Pontifex physics has trouble handling downturns already - I built a bridge where the first section angled down 50% (30 degrees), and train cars 6 and later jump right through the air (try this e.g. with the contest bridge).

Real railway turns are rarely banked much (5-10 degrees?) because the carriages have a relatively high center of gravity and must not tip even if the train has to stop right in a turn (not to mention passenger comfort). Some modern train designs accomodate for this by banking the train instead - so called "pendulum" trains.

Sidenote: Germany's highspeed ICE train does not bank, but required extensive rebuilding of the rail system to make wide curves that are safe at high speeds. (Pendulum trains can reach high speeds on older tracks.)

Model railways usually have turns that are much more narrow than real railway turns to make them fit indoors ;-)
You would probably implement such non-realistic narrow turns in Pontifex as well.  Note: model railways usually don't have banked turns either.

Turns are possible (sort of). Just run http://pontifex.mendelsohn.de/crooked1.pxb on "easy" and see the train swerve (and zigzag into infinity), with no links broken. (Produced in complex mode with 10.19.01; alternate download http://pontifex.mendelsohn.de/crooked1.pxb.zip ).

(Edited by mendel at 2:24 pm on Oct. 22, 2001)