Chronic Logic Forums

Pontifex => General Discussion => Topic started by: Calis on October 20, 2001, 04:07:56 PM

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 20, 2001, 04:07:56 PM
Hmm.. not post any numbers? Why do you think it discourages ppl? I think, everyone who is addicted like me is *encouraged* by having a certain goal.
To see what is possible always motivates me to reach at least the same :)

CL, by removing numbers that have been visible for a while to some lucky guys you have created an unfair advantage to these, IMHO. Now they know what is at least needed to win - but I (and most others) dont know these numbers :(

As you cannot prevent that people talk with each other, I'd say there is no point in censoring posts here.
Especially since the rules dont forbid such conversation.
Think about it..   and let us at least know whether
the numbers had 5 or 6 digits ;)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: larsberg on October 20, 2001, 04:08:57 PM
I have submitted my bridge.

The budget is (biiiiip). I'm looking forward to the close of the competition.

Lars...

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 20, 2001, 04:49:43 PM
Calis,

The reason we have asked for you not to post numbers is for the exact reason you've stated.   We don't want the goal of the contest to keep changing so that you are always trying to beat the best post on the forum, we want you to just build the best bridge you can.  Posting numbers also makes people want to wait for until the last minute to submit their bridge, because they always want to be sure that theirs is beating the lowest post.  It also discourages other people from participating, because once they see a score that they can't possibly beat, they will quit.  We want you to submit it when you think you've done the best you can, and feel good about it.  

As far as an unfair advantage goes, we caught the post less than an hour after it was posted, and no one who read it knows whether the numbers are even genuine or not.  There are still 6 days left in the contest and that gives everyone plenty of time to optimize their bridges.

I don't know how much more official I can make it.  We are the people who made the rules and we are the ones who've asked you not to post numbers.  If you feel like our request does not hold enough authority, we can always amend the rules if that will make it seem more legitimate.

We're not trying to censor anybody, we just want to keep maintain the integrity of the contest.  This is the first one and we made a mistake by not including this request, but we'll make sure to put it in future contests.

If this seems harsh, we don't mean it to be.  We just wanted to answer your questions and justify our request.  We appreciate your feedback and hope even if you don't agree with us, that you understand where we are coming from.

-Chronic Logic

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 20, 2001, 05:33:57 PM
I submitted my bridge. I did want to work on it anymore. I need to clean my other bridges.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: larsberg on October 20, 2001, 06:17:31 PM
(This posting has been retracted by the poster as he was unaware of the posting of Calis at the time the message was written)

(Edited by larsberg at 6:12 pm on Oct. 20, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 23, 2001, 03:26:42 PM
Just put my bridge into their mailbox, at least I hope so ;)
As you never know whether an email arrives or not, some confirmation (automated reply) would be nice.

Now the waiting starts.. maybe thats the positive effect of not discussing numbers.. there is some tension now ;)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on October 20, 2001, 09:23:42 PM
Heh heh... no possible way a bridge for the contest could be less than 6 digits.  I never saw the number, but it doesn't really matter since I already submitted my bridge.  

Working on a bridge for hours to reduce the cost by a few thousand dollars is kinda a pain, plus everybody builds bridges differently and you could be on the wrong track when revising your bridge.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Proj2501 on October 23, 2001, 03:58:28 PM
Phew... after a good few hours, my submission is in.

Not gonna mention any figures, but ive been working on it all night, after having a random idea hit me while at work (which felt like someone maybe dropped the HAV on me...).

Bit of improvement from my original bridge, too - it takes up to 8 cars, athough practically every single link stresses to near breaking point with just 7 cars - that might just be my crappy design, tho.

Still, given me something to do for the last few nights while my GF is overseas ;)

As Calis mentioned, the stress is really getting to me too now.... aggggghhhh!

Good luck to everyone else, and whoever betters my bridge (bound to be someone) _deserves_ the title of Pontifex Maximus!

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: JohnK on October 20, 2001, 10:17:58 PM
I would agree with CL. The sight of a rediculously low number, especially if it was fake would be enough to turn many people off from even trying. If someone is working without a specific cost in mind, they are more likely to build the bridge they feel is the best and cheapest it could be.
While the learning curve for this game is short, the learning curve of how to build strong cheap bridges can be humongous. some people in these forums only recently discovered pontifex, while other have been playing for close to a month, and had already mastered bridge builder.
Unless everyone at least thinks[\i] they have a chance, everyone might not spend time to be the best pontifex they can be.

That is all.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Proj2501 on October 23, 2001, 03:59:35 PM
Wow... I started page 6, too!

Yay me!

(Edited by Proj2501 at 11:15 pm on Oct. 23, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 21, 2001, 01:16:50 AM
Well, I see your point, CL. Dont take my postings harsh, too. This *is* the first contest and we all have to learn :)

I helped to organize contests and rules (sim racing, hot laps and races - online and offline) since more than 5 years now.

Here is what I think:

Your approach (not discussing numbers during the event) will lead to rather different designs and a wide spreaded score range (maybe shocking/frustrating people - just imagine a guy who send in a 220k bridge he is proud of finding out the winner did it with 20k [numbers are pure phantasy! 20k isnt enough to lay the deck now :) ])
It is a nice approach to get many different solutions.
I think, this community is strong enough not to cheat
(since you can put the no discussion part into the rules but there is no way to enforce it, no way to detect cheaters, ..) I had no problems with a similar thing years ago.

I would like to see a different type of contest here (not saying that all others are worse!):

More time (let's say a month), more than one entry per participant encouraged, newest one counts. Regular updates (daily if it can be automated) of the best solutions so far. Discussion encouraged, maybe even designs disclosed.
This emphasizes to find the best possible solution. People will push each other to lower and lower numbers. And the goal for the best shifts from winning the contest to the goal of staying ahead in the daily update (even if there is no prize for that one, I have seen this more than once - the human mind is twisted ;)

This ruleset has some advantages:
No problem with people whining about their discarded entries (they can always make a corrected submission).
Doesnt rely on rules no one can enforce.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: JohnK on October 23, 2001, 04:32:05 PM
This contest has recommited me to beating grey and the others at their riduculously low bridge costs in the normal levels. No luck so far, but I will eventually catch them.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: MrTaco on October 21, 2001, 03:12:33 AM
The anticipation is killing me... can't wait till the 26th...
Just spent the last 8 hours designing/fine tuning my design and I guess about all I can legally say is that I'm pretty happy with my result. I have *NEVER* seen so much deep blue and deep red in one design before and even I can't believe it doesn't go POP. But hey it works :)

I don't really have anything to say I guess (since we're not allowed to post numbers). I just wanted to write something cuz I think I'm "done" now and not quite ready for bed.

If anyone has anything interesting to say then just post. I'm sorta bored with anticipation of a result that won't be known for another week.

MrTaco

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 23, 2001, 07:53:46 PM
I've been undecided as to whether I think outlawing the posting of amounts for the contest bridge is a good idea - however, I now believe it is.

Over the past couple of days I've managed to reduce the cost of my bridge by far more than I would've believed possible when I made my first crude working attempt. If someone had posted the figure I now have a couple of days ago, I would've given up there and then.

That's not bragging, I still fully expect to get beaten - but even if I do, I'll be justly proud of my bridge. I've took it a lot further than I ever thought I could - and isn't that the whole point?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Entroper on October 26, 2001, 09:48:40 AM
Be careful when you say "American time"; the contintental U.S. spans four time zones.  :)  7:00 p.m. EST or 4:00 p.m. PST are after the deadline.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Tyree on October 21, 2001, 06:20:24 AM
Yowza!... I just got the game yesterday, downloaded the Contest1 map, and within a couple hours turned in a monster of a bridge.  Wish I'd have gone through and read these forums first -- could have gotten a bit lower cost.  But, I'm a physics major and have to believe that my knowledge of statics served me well.  we'll see!

I cannot wait to see the top entries (and see where I could have done better).  ^_^

(Edited by Tyree at 7:21 am on Oct. 21, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Neal on October 23, 2001, 09:33:36 PM
I've already submitted my bridge, but I just decreased the cost of my bridge by a fairly substantial amount. Admittedly it currently has 2 broken links, but I'm sure I could work it out with not too much effort. Unfortunately it doesn't matter, since I already submitted my solution!

DOH!

Anyways, as everyone else, I can't wait to see how "rediculously low" some people built the bridge for!

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: beaujob on October 26, 2001, 09:59:10 AM
I for one hope very much that people don't post their costs immediately after the deadline, because ChronicLogic's server can't handle too many simultaneous users, and an influx of Pfx Contest result submissions at 7 pm EST tonight would probably crap out their server.  :(
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 24, 2001, 12:19:45 AM
Chillum: For me it is just the opposite:
I come up with a design, optimize it a bit and send it in.
Probably I have not the slightest chance to win now.
Seeing other numbers, I would have put in as much time as needed to reach and beat those - as long as others are in front of me, I can try to reach them. Not knowing where others are, I'll always think I am the greatest anyway and just take it easy ;)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 26, 2001, 12:27:56 PM
After waiting a week and not seeing any results it would be awfully anti-climatic to see peoples scores and then have the already known winner announced.  The winner will be announced on Monday (early Tuesday in some parts of the world), and if you can hold off on posting your scores until then, that would be great!
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on October 24, 2001, 02:40:14 AM
Yeah, I probably have no chance of winning, but I just want to see what other people came up with and how they cut the costs.  Since I submitted my bridge I've cut about 20k off the cost, but oh well.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 26, 2001, 01:20:40 PM
It's easy - the winner must not post his score, then we won't know who he/she is ;-)
We non-winners could go right ahead....

ChronicLogic, please understand me right this time - it is not a practical suggestion in defiance of your post, but a humorous repartee not to be taken seriously ;-)

(Edited by mendel at 1:57 pm on Oct. 26, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 24, 2001, 07:40:59 AM
My final bridge has just been sent.
It was the fifth try, which was a bit cheaper than the second try.
My third try was kind of a new type of bridge but more expensive. When the contest is over I'll make the bridges public, on my soon to come fan site.
http://www.hoelgaard.dk/pontifex
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 26, 2001, 02:19:34 PM
I guess the winner also must wait untill monday.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: larsberg on October 24, 2001, 10:07:19 AM
Quote: from Ramjet on 12:14 pm on Oct. 23, 2001
1. For this contest, only PERFECT BRIDGES will be accepted. That means that your bridge must have zero broken links on HARD difficulty and that the train cannot pass through any links on its voyage.

Hopefully it came out quoted :)
My question might be kind of stupid,but anyway. The ting im not completely sure about is the "and the train cannot pass through any links on its voyage." Could someone explain this to a Norwegian not so god in english wannabe bridgebuilder ?

1. I denne konkuransen vil bare perfekte broer bli godtatt. Det betyr att du må ha 0 'broken links' på hard vanslighetsgrad, og toget kan ikke kjøre igjennom noen linker (bygge materialer) på sin reise.

Værsågod

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: JohnK on October 26, 2001, 03:32:10 PM
Quote: from Argonut on 11:35 pm on Oct. 25, 2001
But I do have one question that isn't clarified in the rules. What speed will the train run at in the official tests? slow, medium, or fast? or all? My bridge doesn't mind what speed, but I could definitely see that some designs might break with a fast train, or even fail with a slow train instead of fast, etc.

The speed setting doesn't affect the actual speed at which the train travels, only at what rate the simulation is drawn. Slow slows it down by over half, (.5x) and fast goes as fast as your comp. can do the calculations. So, a different speed won't affect your results at all. Good question though, if that had been the case, some decision would have to have been made. :)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: u2pa on October 26, 2001, 04:10:02 PM
hehe.. i have allready made a tribute page to my contest bridge.. i have to say.. i think it would have won.. if just i hadnt forgotten to include the #### password in the first email :((

i will post the url to the bridge tribute site as soon as the contest is over

anyway.. to take screenshots, just press F8 it saves the screen in screens/

(Edited by u2pa at 3:13 pm on Oct. 26, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mat-c on October 26, 2001, 04:23:54 PM
I have just one thing to say: MONDAY???? *laughs*
The tension will kill me!
I guess CL are working the weekend double checking their inbox, so we shouldn't complain.  If anyone wants to send me their entry though, I'll happily tell them that I beat them ;)
Did anyone else think to bcc a copy to themselves so they can check that it got to their email sender at least?  In future confirmation would be nice....

Good luck to everyone, and congrats in advance to the winner, who I bet would rather have "Pontifex Maximus" under their graphic than a cash prize :cheesy:

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: baggio on October 26, 2001, 05:05:28 PM
I just want to thank everyone, without whom this would not be possible... I think that is how I'm going to start my acception speach. As far as I'm concerned we're all winners. :cheesy:

This waiting is going to kill me. I already know that the bridge I submitted is not going to be the best offering, but I'm tormenting myself, wondering if my current, private design will best the winner of the contest.

I need to take some Valium. :cool: I can't believe I'm going to have to wait until Monday.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: beaujob on October 27, 2001, 02:59:15 PM
Here's a question... what was that roadway cheat all about?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 29, 2001, 11:03:54 PM
Quote: from mat-c on 4:51 pm on Oct. 29, 2001
I didn't win either, but I did get a special mention with something like 5th place or thereabouts...

Well, you beat ME, so you should be happy =)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 30, 2001, 02:14:00 AM
Congrats Calis.

I wasn't even close with my 125166. Bugger!

Hail the Pontifex Maximus! Hurray!!!

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mat-c on October 31, 2001, 05:24:00 PM
falkon2: I got 81005, what was your entry? :)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on November 01, 2001, 01:30:34 AM
82424
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Klei on November 01, 2001, 10:44:29 AM
Mine was 86472. There's a screenshot on my site.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Andy24 on November 01, 2001, 08:03:32 PM
Isn't this string getting a little long?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on November 02, 2001, 04:44:48 AM
Hey, its my string, keep it going! on and on and on! on forever! :biggrin:
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Andy24 on November 02, 2001, 08:49:14 PM
well mabey but looking at the string about extreem calm I think that the prospects of this getting much longer arent to good
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 21, 2001, 06:52:34 AM
CL: I think maybe a bonus could be implemented, say cut the price by an exponential number based on the number of days (including fractions)  left to the end of the contest from the time the bridge is submitted. If not, all the "heavyweights" on the board wont see any reason not to wait till the last minute to submit
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: taffer on October 21, 2001, 08:13:44 AM
Sorry if i missed it, but as far as I could tell, there was NOWHERE specified what the objective of the contest is!!

Now im not stupid so i *guess* it is to make the bridge as cheap as possible. But some confirmation of this would be nice.

I would also like the contest to be to make the bridge as *beautiful* as possible ( we do a vote on the bridges after the deadline), or to make it as much earthquake proof as possible.

Can someone officially confirm that the contest is about making the bridge as cheap as possible?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: deepgreen on October 21, 2001, 08:15:06 AM
hmm, falkon, imagine somebody isn't able to download the contest bridge before the 25th, then he wouldn't be able to win a prize. do you think that's fair ? Nobody says you have to send your bridge when you completed it, maybe you even want to take a second look and find a cheaper solution ?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: VRBones on October 22, 2001, 06:17:41 PM
Quote: from ChronicLogic on 9:59 am on Oct. 22, 2001
Regarding the settling period:  We will wait until we feel the bridge is "settled" before we test the bridge.  We do not want to specify an exact time, nor do we feel like we should.  Our point is that we don't want bridges that only work under certain conditions (TT'ability being one of them),   we want bridges that, once settled, will always work.  
Thanks for that, much clearer.
The reason we said we'd wait a few seconds, is that we have yet to see a bridge that takes more than that to settle, but in the event we do, we'll give it the time it needs.
I guess you're not sitting in front of a PII/300 then :D
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: deepgreen on October 21, 2001, 08:15:20 AM
hmm, falkon, imagine somebody isn't able to download the contest bridge before the 25th, then he wouldn't be able to win a prize. do you think that's fair ? Nobody says you have to send your bridge when you completed it, maybe you even want to take a second look and find a cheaper solution ?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 23, 2001, 12:12:13 AM
CL wrote: I apologize for the time it has taken to respond.  We decided to take a day off yesterday (I know, what were we thinking?).  


Hmm... you mean, you didnt work on Sunday? What a concept ;)

BTW: Contest rule 6 asks a password.
Do you mean the password I use for the forum or the password I got via mail at registration time?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Gray on October 21, 2001, 08:52:18 AM
Calis, I like your alternate contest concept and I really hope to see BOTH kinds of contests take place here in the future.
taffer, very good point! Though I do think they mean as cheap as possible, it could be CL didn't state that on purpose... How about commenting on this, CL??

(Edited by Gray at 5:06 pm on Oct. 21, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 23, 2001, 12:24:40 AM
The password that goes with your username.  Not the keycode.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: OverClok on October 24, 2001, 11:11:31 AM
Quote: from beaujob on 5:07 pm on Oct. 22, 2001
once in a while a bridge design doesn't require the metal on the sides of roadway.  Is it fair to require that these links don't break either?For the purposes of the competition, it's a good idea to only allow "clean" bridges, but it is frustrating - I've made some nice "almost-clean" bridges that work fine, but aren't 100% clean for ฝ,000 cheaper than my best clean bridge... :(
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 21, 2001, 10:26:57 AM
Whoa there, I'm not talking about anything more than a 5% decrease total. Its just an incentive to finish quickly and send in the bridge.

And let me ask you this. You comment on someone downloading the bridge on the 25th and not being able to win. Logically speaking, with or without this small little bonus, do you think he'll be able to slap up a design would beat someone who'd thought about and optimized his bridge from the very start? And if it did, would it be by that small a margin that a small bonus would drop him to second place?

If that second guy had spent a long time optimising his bridge anyway, he'd be sending it in pretty close to the deadline anyway, thus nullifying the bonus.

You don't have to fault me for making a suggestion. Its not like CL will absolutely listen to whatever I say and implement it, so keep your cool a little

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Latka on October 23, 2001, 03:02:47 AM
I sent my beginner bridge in. :)  It took quite a while to figure out a combination that made for 0 broken links, but it is possible.

I can't wait to see what the winning design is!

-Andy

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: DaSucker on October 24, 2001, 02:25:07 PM
Hi,

i have finally made one... for (edited by CL)...
no prob here...

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 21, 2001, 02:35:14 PM
Howdy all.  There are a lot of good ideas floating around here, and we may implement some of them at some point in the future.  We are definitely going to do other types of contests besides the economically challenging, but that is the goal of this contest.  I apologize if it was not stated clearly before.  Like I said, this is the first contest and we are going to make some mistakes, and we thank you for correcting us when we do.  I will update the official contest rules with this goal and also mention that we don't want people talking about numbers.  I think everyone is keeping their cool, they are only offering their own opinions on a very open issue.  As for this contest, the rules stand as they are unless someone else points out another omission on our part.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 23, 2001, 04:28:28 AM
The deck would be extremely weak without the metal at the sides... it would just snap off the boxlets at either end at the slightest twist. Therefore, the metal does serve a purpose and therefore should not break either =)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on October 24, 2001, 02:43:23 PM
Um... ChronicLogic specifically asked for people not to post what their cost was...

On a totally different subject: I started the longest thread, yay!

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: baggio on October 26, 2001, 01:25:11 AM
Now I know my submitted bridge is poor... I just made one พk cheaper... It doesn't even require a settling time. [Banging head against wall] I'm quitting and going to bed before I tick myself off even more.

Why I couldn't do this a week ago I don't know. I spent several hours over the week and couldn't make a cheaper design. In the past two, I've shaved off mucho bucks.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: panther on October 21, 2001, 04:29:43 PM
Congrats Chroniclogic Team on running the first contest. Good choice of level I thought for the first one. Allows many different styles to be adopted.

I've made my submission, and look forward to the results, if only to see the way others tackled it.

Looking forward to the next one already....

Regards to all in the forums, this really is beginning to become a lively, and friendly community.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: demonbug on October 23, 2001, 11:43:16 AM
While this perhaps isn't the correct place to discuss this, I have made a number of bridges where practically all of the deck supports have broken and my bridge still worked exactly the way I intended.  It happens on my ultra-cool rope bridges (no support underneath or over, just cables running along the sides of the decking connecting the pieces together).  I have had working bridges with over 1,000 broken links from building that way.  I don't think it would be a good idea to allow deck supports to break in competitions though (for one thing, it is often very difficult to tell exactly what pieces broke, especially as the number of broken links increases).
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: brett on October 24, 2001, 03:58:07 PM
Well, CL will probably censor DaSucker's post pretty soon, but that figure is making me feel pretty good about the bridge I submitted...  I made three different designs, and I gotta say the first one that was just a straight deck suspended form a generic heavy steel arch was 40k cheaper.  :)

I'm glad CL is censoring prices, because I would probably be really frustrated right now trying to win.  As it is, I'm done with it, and even though I'm sure someone like Gray or Chillum will beat me, I'm #### proud that I came up with a weird design that turns dark blue and bright red from one end to the other but doesn't break :)

I'd like to see everybody take a screenshot of their bridge (in the edit screen) and let everybody look at all the different designs when the contest is over... especially the winner.

And on a side note, aren't the little blue smiley faces eerily calm looking?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 26, 2001, 01:43:03 AM
I see Chronic Logic's chronic logic in only allowing one entree per contestant, (I think, so correct me here if I'm wrong). As the community grows, more and more people are going to participate in the contests, and if each of them sent one bridge instead of, say, three, it would reduce the amount of bridges submitted by 2/3rds.. Obviously this would make it easier for the contest logistics to be handled.


baggio: *Grin* We live and learn =)

Argonut: The speed dictates the simulation speed, not the speed the train runs. If you make a really bouncy bridge, you'll notice when switching to "fast" that the frequency of bouncing increases. Your train will behave the same way regardless of the simulation speed.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on October 21, 2001, 04:50:23 PM
I hope the top 5 bridges are posted for viewing, not just the winner.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mjohn on October 23, 2001, 12:05:43 PM
I like the Idea that ChronicLogic is censoring bridge budgets. If I read that post and found out that someone has a cheaper bridge that me I wouldnt even bother to submit my contest entry. And thats just me, lets say a whole bunch of others do not submit, that could mean a small turnout and no more contests! :(

And, the more entries, the better. Hopefully CL will post screenshots of all the entries after the contest. I love browsing through tons of other designs - contest winners or not!

And who knows, even though I dont feel those who have posted scores were doing such to deceive people, what if someone wasn't totally truthful with their cost and they discouraged someone from entering that could have really won?

Just my Ũ.02

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: VRBones on October 24, 2001, 05:04:57 PM
Quote: from brett on 2:58 pm on Oct. 24, 2001
I'd like to see everybody take a screenshot of their bridge (in the edit screen) and let everybody look at all the different designs when the contest is over... especially the winner.
I'd prolly expect CL to make up a bit of a page after the comp with pics etc of the winning bridges, plus possibly some standout design ones. In any event I've got a pic standing by for the thread that's bound to start after the comp is over ;)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: baggio on October 26, 2001, 02:00:32 AM
Aaaaghghgh!!!! ฦ,136 cheaper... I think this is as low as I'm going to get it. At least for tonight. If I shave off any more, there won't be a bridge left. ;)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Proj2501 on October 21, 2001, 05:29:01 PM
Right.... Nearly got mine done, atho im not gonna mention the cost, ill just say its a lot lower than I thought I could do. :)
Good few hours of teaking left yet, and may I just congratulate CL on the best #### game ive played in years.
Only bought the game last night, and I gotta say, im gonna be recomending it to everyone, but making sure they get some sleep first tho. :)
Keep up the good work guys!
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Ramjet on October 23, 2001, 01:14:21 PM
1. For this contest, only PERFECT BRIDGES will be accepted. That means that your bridge must have zero broken links on HARD difficulty and that the train cannot pass through any links on its voyage.

Hopefully it came out quoted :)
My question might be kind of stupid,but anyway. The ting im not completely sure about is the "and the train cannot pass through any links on its voyage." Could someone explain this to a Norwegian not so god in english wannabe bridgebuilder ?


Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 24, 2001, 08:30:13 PM
It has been brought to our attention that it is possible to build cheaper bridges by exploiting a bug in the game.  It has to do with building deck pieces over asymmetric steel pieces.  If you've discovered the bug, then you know what we're talking about.  To be sure that this bug is not exploited in the contest, we will rebuild the decks of the bridges to verify that they are genuine.  We have checked the bridges that have been sent in so far, and none of them have this problem.  Thank you to mendel, falkon2, and Gray for pointing this out.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: scarmody on October 26, 2001, 02:01:44 AM
i like the idea of a complete list of entries sorted in order of cost be avaliable too.  that way we know where we all fit in relation to our pontifex abilities and others in the community.

i'd also like to say that i don't see why multiple submissions is a problem.  why not just make the mail client auto replace a users last submission.  that way theres always only the best one entry per user.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 23, 2001, 01:25:09 PM
If you're using a central arch (instead of two side by side), you could build it so it comes up through the deck (the rails) in the middle to save costs. The train will not collide with the bars and pass right through (ghost train, huh).
You are not allowed to do this (or similar things).
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 25, 2001, 01:17:12 AM
Isn't it the same as just removing the link going across the bridge? Or does the link just become invisible?
I haven't used it in my design since it wasn't possible.

BTW: How do we take screenshots?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 26, 2001, 02:51:04 AM
I would also like a list of everyone's bridges and costs. Then I can see how much I really suck at building bridges.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: JohnK on October 23, 2001, 03:21:51 PM
Why is everyone so worried about settling? The people testing the bridge aren't a bunch of underpaid temps (well underpaid yes, you should get lots more for a game like this, it is the pinnacle of bridge building simulators! Where was I? Ah, yes, Settling) they are people who wrote the game and wouldn't disqualify someone on a technicality that their bridge "doesn't work if you start it in seconds that are also prime numbers." I for one am not worried.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Klei on October 25, 2001, 04:42:07 AM
The contest bridge was SO SIMPLE!!!
It took me 7 minutes to figure it out and build a bridge!
Of course, I don't expect to win, but still: that bridge is far too simple.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 26, 2001, 02:53:02 AM
Andre nordmenn her også ja :)

This is exciting I would say

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 25, 2001, 05:06:08 AM
>> Klei

Edit: Sorry Klei. I don't know why I wrote my reply in danish. What I wrote was:

It's the first contest. Everybody should be able to participate.

BTW: CL, how many bridges have you recieved so far?

(Edited by Dreadnough at 3:16 pm on Oct. 25, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 26, 2001, 03:09:07 AM
Dansker her.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 25, 2001, 05:59:55 AM
LOL! I think simplicity is what CL wanted.. they wanted a bridge that is, stealing a quote, "Easy to learn, Hard to master" in that sense. Simple enough that anyone can participate in the contest, yet large enough that we can spend days optimizing the bridge and provide challenge for maniacs like Gray

BTW, Just sent in my bridge. Gray: I've gotten it cheaper than when we last talked, but I'm not telling HOW much cheaper =P. Let you simmer a bit in anxiety before you click "send".


Edit: Deadnough: Nope, CL wasn't referring to that - removing the cross-beam actually weakens the structure. What CL was talking about is an exploit that gives you deck cheaper, yet has exactly the same physical properties as a normal, unexploited deck. After the contest I'll start a thread detailing that bug, and (if CL doesn't already fix it by then) some suggestions for workarounds which might also provide another neat feature for Pfx.

(Edited by falkon2 at 5:06 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: OverClok on October 26, 2001, 07:49:12 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing a price-distribution chart of how many people submitted bridges for $####
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: MrTaco on October 26, 2001, 08:17:58 AM
At 4:00 pm American time it becomes ok to post bridge info right?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on October 20, 2001, 02:08:41 AM
Who here built one?  I had to spend like an hour and a half and try tons of different designs before it would finally hold at hard.  Heh, everything stresses to the max when the train goes over and ONE broken link (manually broken) makes the whole thing collapse :)

(Edited by Sarterixa at 1:19 am on Oct. 20, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Gray on October 26, 2001, 08:20:35 AM
I guess it should be allowed by then... But some have expressed the wish not to see any scores until the winner is announced...

(Edited by Gray at 4:29 pm on Oct. 26, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 20, 2001, 07:52:36 AM
Heh. I think everyone's going to be hush-hush on their minimum budgets for this one =)

Or even give false (I.e. higher figures) to lull folks into a false sense of security.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mat-c on October 29, 2001, 06:22:42 AM
CL will analyse them in order of cheapness... a few will be too low because they won't work on hard, or have broken links, etc.  It won't be long before they find the winner that way.
If there is any delay, its because they are double checking all the entries (slight subjectline differences may affect the order in their inbox.)
Then again, they might be discussing whether my winning bridge is legal ;)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Gray on October 20, 2001, 08:56:09 AM
The only reason not to submit your bridge on the last day is that you would lose a tie. A tie is pretty improbable. So...
Has anyone already built something he's proud of?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: MrTaco on October 29, 2001, 09:58:58 AM
getting very very tired of waiting

post results of contest soon

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 20, 2001, 09:51:36 AM
Hmm.. did I misconfigure something, or is the contest bridge really meant to be tested with 7 cars?
Nice challenge if that's the case :-/
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: street on October 29, 2001, 11:57:22 AM
I agree, I'm getting very anxious to know who won.  But the anticipation is fun too.  :cool:
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: larsberg on October 20, 2001, 10:49:02 AM
My bridge handles 7 cars on hard with no broken links.

Budget: less than (edited by ChronicLogic)

I think the winning bridge will be around (edited by ChronicLogic)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 29, 2001, 12:33:37 PM
Y'all have noticed how the chroniclogic web server refuses connections once in a while - could it be that system refuses to accept emails and silently loses them? Your contest bridge might be in nirvana for all you know....

Now did you feel frightened?

Gotcha! It's all made up! Scary rumour to heighten the tension! ;-)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 20, 2001, 11:47:53 AM
Wow. under (edited by ChronicLogic). and I thought I was proud of mine.  ####. Back to the drawing board.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Gray on October 29, 2001, 12:46:19 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH *jumps out of the window*

(Oops, ground floor, ####) *whines*

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 20, 2001, 12:02:58 PM
We would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting any numbers as not to discourage people and maintain the integrity of the contest.  Thanks!
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: street on October 29, 2001, 12:49:29 PM
Don't think for a second that I didn't just wet myself in dread.  

Just kidding, but seriously, I've really been worried because MY e-mail server sometimes quietly loses my mail.   *gasp*

Better play some GTA 3 to calm my nerves.  :cool:

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: larsberg on October 20, 2001, 01:43:38 PM
OK! Sorry about that.

Maybe add this to the contest rules?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 29, 2001, 03:54:12 PM
The contest results are in and can be found here: http://www.chroniclogic.com/c1intro.html
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: JohnK on October 20, 2001, 02:06:55 PM
This is going to be a hard contest to win, especially since I'm not all that great at making cheap but long bridges. CL, could the next contest be a short (but difficult) level? I seem to be able to think through those better.

(Edited by kvinge at 3:08 pm on Oct. 20, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: baggio on October 29, 2001, 04:13:32 PM
Wow... I didn't win. No surprise there. Anyone want to start a thread with screen captures of their entry? I'll submit mine, but I'll have to get some webspace first.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mat-c on October 29, 2001, 05:51:36 PM
I didn't win either, but I did get a special mention with something like 5th place or thereabouts...
I'd like to be the first to congratulate Calis on some fine chea... bridge building expertise :)
Well done mate and may your reign be long and glorious... btw if you ever get a job as an architect, remind me to never travel by train ;)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 29, 2001, 11:00:10 PM
Accidental double post... Er.. uh...

A funny think happenes to me on teh awy here... uh... er, ####.

(Edited by falkon2 at 10:06 pm on Oct. 29, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: VRBones on October 21, 2001, 09:19:21 PM
Would CL be able to clarify point 2 of the rules ?
2. Timing cannot be a factor for your bridge beyond the initial settling point. In other words, we don't want you to say, "It works when you run it 2.5 seconds after the simulation starts." We will run the train a few seconds after the simulation begins to test it.
While doing a lot of tests I noticed some bridges took quite a while to settle, sometimes as much as 30 seconds. Running the train before then has a random chance of breaking. While the initial section seems to imply that you will wait for the bridge to 'settle', the last section implies that this would be expected to be fairly quick (a few seconds).  I've got no problems building a bridge that will withstand a quicker starting time, but at a cost of ~񙇈 extra, it seems a pretty large chunk of cash given up to satisfy a 'fuzzy' rule. Would you be able to state something like 'The settling period is expected to be X' or 'The settlng period is complete when there is no movement visible' or are we able to include screenshots or other proof that the bridge stands (which seems to be what you don't want from the middle section of the rule)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: MrTaco on October 21, 2001, 11:41:36 PM
I'm pretty interested in teh reply to Bones' question too.

I too have a bridge that requires "settling." I'm not talking about 30 seconds, more like 10-15 (on a 400 mhz celeron) which is probably 5-7 seconds on an average 800 mhz p3.

How much settling time do we get?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 22, 2001, 12:16:33 AM
Giving settling time in seconds wouldnt do the job, I guess. What we need is either a 'simulation time' display or an option like I suggested in the 'new ideas'-'batch testing' thread  (I didnt say 3/5 *seconds* there for exactly this reason :)

Once we have such, maybe there should be a way to store the settling time along with the bridge to make batch testing possible for bridges needing different delays. (or just specify a multiple test with delays 1,2,3,4,5,7,10,15,20 or such..  would take longer to test, though :)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 22, 2001, 02:16:44 AM
Or maybe a "Contest run" feature that automatically runs the train at a time specified in the contest level file. This would solve a lot of the settling time problems we're having.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: ataraxia on October 22, 2001, 03:28:12 AM
yeah that's a good idea, having the train auto-run after a set amount of machine ticks. that will solve the argument (:

my contest bridge will carry 10 carriages, so I don't think it's in any danger of winning! lol

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 25, 2001, 07:19:49 AM
OK Falkon2. I might have used it. I haven't noticed it though.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 22, 2001, 04:11:15 AM
Re: talking about the contest bridge in public

Instead of proscribing what motivates people, why not let them decide themselves?

Suggestion: make a 5th "contest designs" forum; forbid talking contest designs/scores outside of that and don't restrict it inside. General discussion about the contest (about the rules etc.) should stil be going on in the "General" Forum.

That way, players who feel they'll be demotivated by these things can stay clear of that forum; players who feel that will motivate them can read it.

What we need now is a poll (Gray, are you listening?).

Quote

Btw, the "settling time" issue is connected to the issues disussed in the "Strongest bridges?" thread. I would suggest adding a mid-air Ũ-cost box (see "A new kind of record" ) to your bridge that self-destructs when it hits ground; once that happens, Chronic may start the train.
I'm not sure if the rules need to be amended for that since it's not the bridge that breaks links when the box hits. Ben/Alex, what do you think?

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: panther on October 25, 2001, 10:50:09 AM
Hmmm, lots of discussion on allowing the bridge to settle in this discussion.

I think that minimum settle time is ok, as you really wouldn't expect to place a real bridge and have it flap about a bit before considering it finished.

As a perfect example, look at the guys who designed the Millenium footbridge in London, UK. It never settled! LOL. Guess they should have left the design for all us Pontifex users, we probably would have made it on a lower budget too!:wink:

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: on October 22, 2001, 10:59:28 AM
I apologize for the time it has taken to respond.  We decided to take a day off yesterday (I know, what were we thinking?:)).  

Regarding the settling period:  We will wait until we feel the bridge is "settled" before we test the bridge.  We do not want to specify an exact time, nor do we feel like we should.  Our point is that we don't want bridges that only work under certain conditions (TT'ability being one of them),   we want bridges that, once settled, will always work.  The reason we said we'd wait a few seconds, is that we have yet to see a bridge that takes more than that to settle, but in the event we do, we'll give it the time it needs.

Mendel, the point of having rules is to regulate behavior.  The point of motivating people a certain way is to encourage behavior.  Your question is, in essence, the same as the one by Calis.  Why don't we have a separate forum for contest discussion?  Simply put, because we don't want people to discuss their numbers.  It gives an unfair advantage to those would use the forum, not to mention, violates the individuality that we are seeking in the contest.  We have no problem with people discussing their bridges with friends, we just have asked you not to make your numbers public knowledge.

We hope this clears up these issues, and if there are any more questions, we'll be here.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: street on October 25, 2001, 01:57:32 PM
I'm really glad to see everyone actively participating in the discussion.  It looks like a considerable amount of people purchased the game!  I just finished my contest bridge after many long nights of polishing.  I tried many different kinds of bridge.  It made me really try to cut the cost until the bridge nearly collapsed (and beyond).

I'm really glad that posting Prices for bridges was not allowed.  I could not have possibly made my final bridge any cheaper, and if I had seen that someone else had, I wouldn't have even bothered to submit mine.

Now that I have submitted one though, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and I even think I might win still.  :o

Anyway, everyone should play carmageddon 2 if they haven't already, the crushing physics are fantastic.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 22, 2001, 02:49:30 PM
Hmm... slight misunderstanding here, I fear.
I don't question having rules, and I didn't suggest changing them for this running contest.
I am just advocating regulating behaviour differently the next time around :-)

You talk about "individuality" and "discussing with friends". You can't control the latter, so the first is moot. This is no written exam after all, this should be fun. Real bridges are always constructed as a team effort, and often there are public hearings.

A seperate forum is not an unfair advantage.
How is having something that everyone can use unfair?

Not having people to discuss the contest with is a disadvantage you impose by denying this forum. You impose it on those who don't have friends to discuss pontifex with (or friends who are not as good at it as my friends are ;-). People who discuss with friends do not have the disadvantage. Having the forum would be more fair.

It's your contest, you decide.
If I don't like your decisions, I don't need to participate. I could even run my own contest :-)

But still there's the urge to put in my 2 cents ;-)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: JohnK on October 25, 2001, 06:39:36 PM
Quote: from Dreadnough on 2:17 am on Oct. 25, 2001

BTW: How do we take screenshots?

The F8 key saves them as .bmp files in the pontifex/screen directory.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 22, 2001, 02:50:18 PM
To make a posting error into humor, what would the minimum Pontifex contest ruleset be?

"Send in any bridge, someone will win."

(Edited by mendel at 12:47 am on Oct. 23, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: scarmody on October 25, 2001, 08:00:33 PM
Bought the game 2 days ago, i love it soooooo much.    Its the best AUSี dollars i've ever spent.

Ah anywayz, just woke after spending all last night getting a contest1 bridge working.  Finally @ 4am the #### thing was humming.  I'm another believer in not knowing the scores of other people, sort of promotes my ego a bit, thinking that my $###### bridge is the cheapest :-)

Again i'd just like to say nice work fellars.

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: beaujob on October 22, 2001, 06:07:24 PM
Speaking of links that break that serve no structural purpose, what if a bridge design made no usage of the roadway structural steel?  Perhaps this should be a post to future versions, but every once in a while a bridge design doesn't require the metal on the sides of roadway.  Is it fair to require that these links don't break either?
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 25, 2001, 08:20:35 PM
The tension is killing me!


*blows up*

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: VRBones on October 25, 2001, 09:28:10 PM
The tension is killing me!

Ahahaha, Don't "Collapse under the strain" :D

(Edited by VRBones at 8:29 pm on Oct. 25, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Argonut on October 25, 2001, 10:35:44 PM
Ah, finally had a chance to try to make a bridge for contest 1. Due to time contraints I only got about 2 hours in, and tried two different bridge designs, getting weirder/cooler with each one, and I know I'm gonna lose, but I definitely agree with the decision to not talk about bridge costs. I like the anticipation of seeing how everyone compared once the deadline is complete :) kind of reminds me of getting results back from tests back in school.

Speaking of results, how will they get posted? will we see a list of the complete results, so we can satisfy our curiosity by seeing how many people entered, and look down the list to see how other people we know did?

But I do have one question that isn't clarified in the rules. What speed will the train run at in the official tests? slow, medium, or fast? or all? My bridge doesn't mind what speed, but I could definitely see that some designs might break with a fast train, or even fail with a slow train instead of fast, etc.

anyway, enough for now. Great game, thanks for putting together the new version, guys :)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: baggio on October 26, 2001, 12:31:23 AM
I wish we could submit new designs... I thought I'd optimized my bridge perfectly, submitted, and then almost a week later, I've been able to shave about Ūk off the design.

I think it should be possible to resubmit newer designs, but with the more recent design resetting your submition time.  Kinda like an EBay auction.  I may not win the contest now, but my newer design might have.

I understand CLs decision in this, to prevent people submitting every bridge they designed, but next time maybe the limit should be no more than 3 entrees.

edit: I rechecked, and I shaved even more off than I had thought... :/ บk

(Edited by baggio at 1:40 am on Oct. 26, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Dreadnough on October 26, 2001, 01:05:33 AM
When the contest is over I would like if everyone would keep their scores a secret untill the winners are made public.
Thanks.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Ramjet on October 27, 2001, 04:14:02 PM
I asked a friend of mine to build a bridge. He did and told me at what cost. Uhhh 70K lower than mine,, Whatta !#¤"  BUT when he told me how it was designed i wondered !,,,, Whould that work in RL ?? No way, but he still made a VERY cheap bridge...

Me personally want to see how you all designed youre bridge, not so much how much i cost.. Well thats me and im not angry/pissed that I know im not going to win this contest,but more interested in how it looks...

(Dont mind the english guys, long time since my last essay :)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 27, 2001, 04:50:45 PM
Post 100 on this thread :-)
(Numbers start with zero, so it's the 101th post really :).

Beaujob, the deck cheat goes like this:
Build light steel where the back of your deck will be, after that, build the deck. The deck will use the pre-built steel, at much lower cost, but same strength. The light steel will still show up as the usual line in the editor if you look closely.

You can use heavy steel as well; that way, it'll cost more, but you have added strength.

The seed to this was laid with my crooked1 bridge published on the Turns thread (which cost less than it ought to have, without me noticing), and Gray and I realized what this meant while we were chatting about it on icq. :)

Imagine the agony of deciding whether to use this advantage clocking in at more than 񙖰 for the contest bridge, whether rule 3 stating "Anything other than the previous two conditions is fair game." covered this eventuality, what would happen if we decided not to use this advantage, someone else had indepently discovered it from the "Turns" posting and won with it, etc.
In the end, we decided to ask ChronicLogic, which resulted in the announcement you all read. ;-)

(Edited by mendel at 4:02 pm on Oct. 27, 2001)

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Entroper on October 27, 2001, 06:39:07 PM
I think you guys handled it the right way -- whenever there's a question of fairness, take it to the judge.  :)  It was interesting how you found out about it too.  Anyway, kudos for doing the right thing.  If people had submitted similar bridges with a noticeable difference in cost, there could've been a big mess about disqualifications and things like that.
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Sarterixa on October 28, 2001, 01:47:04 AM
ARRG! THE HORROR!

I just threw together a contest bridge in 5 minutes for kicks, it actually held, and it cut off a huge amount from the bridge I submitted.  The winning bridge had BETTER be cheaper or I'm gonna smack myself.:shocked:

Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Gray on October 28, 2001, 05:41:04 AM
You know what I'm suspecting? It takes all weekend to analyze the submitted bridges because the CL guys have probably taken a day off this Sunday! Remember last week? Now this is rudeness! I hope they stop doing such things in the future, after all, we paid for the game (*cough*)...
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: mendel on October 28, 2001, 06:04:08 AM
Shame on you, Gray! Harboring such evil suspicions! :-)
If they are true, the next contest should have its deadline sunday 23:59 to avoid this.
But as many posts here have asked for extensive stats etc., that means not only reviewing the top-ranking bridge, but all of them, rebuilding decks etc. (maybe even making screenshots?), and that takes time. Let's wait and see what the Monday situation is ... ;)
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Gray on October 28, 2001, 06:10:52 AM
They better really be at it today :) ... Hope the results page/Hall of Fame blows us all away with its completeness..
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: falkon2 on October 28, 2001, 07:32:40 AM
1st place gets a free Cruise Missile and 2nd place wins teh prize!
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Klei on October 29, 2001, 04:09:40 AM
They should create an automatic program that tests the bridges and prints the scores of the onew that work to a file - and then they would be able to jusst run it, and three hours later, they'd know who the winner is
Title: Contest Bridge?
Post by: Calis on October 29, 2001, 05:36:36 AM
Klei: That´s exactly what I suggested in my
Batch testing    thread :)
Should be easy to automate, maybe even with commandline support for the main program :)