Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 14, 2004, 08:49:07 PM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 14, 2004, 08:49:07 PM
What would make Gish plus the editor much more versatile? (and take quite some time to implement)
- Levels should be able to have custom data.
- A custom file hierarchy for groups of levels, the levels itself, and their data.
- Pistons you have full control over (particularly start positions), and that extend/contract by the distance you enter, not something that is hard to correct if that isn't what you want.
- Java for custom stuff in levels (and everything else). It is relatively fast, safe, stable, object-oriented, multi-platform, easy to learn, you can use all classes that already exist (including java.lang.Math, of course), you can use security managers (including your own), developer tools are free, etc. I think it is possible in some way to use the existent VM on the system? About everything should be able to be replaced with Java classes, which should have full control over everything. That extends possibilities for advanced users a lot.
- Support for strings (including file names) inside levels. Probably with a TOC at the beginning of the file giving everything an ID, which is used in the rest of the level.
- Read the main thread about the editor.
Just my ideal world... may be over the top. I can try to create an initial file structure and format descriptions which might ease it a bit.
- Levels should be able to have custom data.
- A custom file hierarchy for groups of levels, the levels itself, and their data.
- Pistons you have full control over (particularly start positions), and that extend/contract by the distance you enter, not something that is hard to correct if that isn't what you want.
- Java for custom stuff in levels (and everything else). It is relatively fast, safe, stable, object-oriented, multi-platform, easy to learn, you can use all classes that already exist (including java.lang.Math, of course), you can use security managers (including your own), developer tools are free, etc. I think it is possible in some way to use the existent VM on the system? About everything should be able to be replaced with Java classes, which should have full control over everything. That extends possibilities for advanced users a lot.
- Support for strings (including file names) inside levels. Probably with a TOC at the beginning of the file giving everything an ID, which is used in the rest of the level.
- Read the main thread about the editor.
Just my ideal world... may be over the top. I can try to create an initial file structure and format descriptions which might ease it a bit.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: DonutGuyX on October 14, 2004, 11:28:07 PM
Post by: DonutGuyX on October 14, 2004, 11:28:07 PM
Here's what I would like to see:
-Ability to add custom tiles, enemies, etc. to a map and have them all saved in the single .lvl file so that people who download your map wouldn't have unzip things to a lot of different folders and then lose track of what originally came with the game and what didn't.
-Ability to modify Gish's size, color, mass, etc, both through triggers in the level and beforehand.
-Ability to create new rope types and set rope strength.
-Ability to create triggers/area switches that break ropes attached to a selected object or anchor point.
-Ability to create foreground tiles that push Gish in a specific x/y/z direction (like wind).
-Ability to set RGB values for individual tiles.
-Scroll speed option.
-Multiple degrees of zoom in the editor so that it's easier to see how much of the available map your level takes up and where things are in relation to each other.
-Ability to add custom tiles, enemies, etc. to a map and have them all saved in the single .lvl file so that people who download your map wouldn't have unzip things to a lot of different folders and then lose track of what originally came with the game and what didn't.
-Ability to modify Gish's size, color, mass, etc, both through triggers in the level and beforehand.
-Ability to create new rope types and set rope strength.
-Ability to create triggers/area switches that break ropes attached to a selected object or anchor point.
-Ability to create foreground tiles that push Gish in a specific x/y/z direction (like wind).
-Ability to set RGB values for individual tiles.
-Scroll speed option.
-Multiple degrees of zoom in the editor so that it's easier to see how much of the available map your level takes up and where things are in relation to each other.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: rammerizkool on October 15, 2004, 01:14:03 AM
Post by: rammerizkool on October 15, 2004, 01:14:03 AM
an extensive help thing, IN the gish editor... 
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: sniperGasMask on October 17, 2004, 02:22:20 AM
Post by: sniperGasMask on October 17, 2004, 02:22:20 AM
i'd like to see a sound editor so you can choose your music
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 18, 2004, 08:24:25 PM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 18, 2004, 08:24:25 PM
I'd say the name of a music file (or again, full control via Java. Does anyone know about reverse-usual-jni?).
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: markr on October 18, 2004, 09:07:19 PM
Post by: markr on October 18, 2004, 09:07:19 PM
Come on guys, it's only a platform game, not a full-on game builder engine.
I see a lot of problems with the editor (documentation being a major one), but I have no problem believing that the existing levels were made with it.
True, there are some things that are difficult to do - try getting two switches to open one door for example (The reverse is straightforward).
But scripting is not IMHO necessary for a simple game like Gish.
I see a lot of problems with the editor (documentation being a major one), but I have no problem believing that the existing levels were made with it.
True, there are some things that are difficult to do - try getting two switches to open one door for example (The reverse is straightforward).
But scripting is not IMHO necessary for a simple game like Gish.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 18, 2004, 10:34:48 PM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 18, 2004, 10:34:48 PM
| Quote (markr @ Oct. 18 2004,11:07) |
| Come on guys, it's only a platform game, not a full-on game builder engine. |
It's not a standard platform game. It has a very realistic physics engine which takes some shapes and physical properties, and then just works right. That's where complexity and simplicity meet, and the only limit is your imagination (besides computer power). But there is a problem: YOU CAN'T GIVE ALL INPUT YOU WANT IN A GENERAL-PURPOSE FIXED FORMAT! And then you are suddenly very limited, while you can feel the power under the hood. Scripting (particularly Java, which is almost programming, but still interpreted) enables that interaction again.
I see a lot of problems with the editor (documentation being a major one)
A reference and a brain is all you need.
True, there are some things that are difficult to do - try getting two switches to open one door for example (The reverse is straightforward).
This is where it gets complex for a fixed format (but still possible), and scripting comes in. What you just mentioned is halfway to complex.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Incessant-Logic on November 03, 2004, 12:23:00 PM
Post by: Incessant-Logic on November 03, 2004, 12:23:00 PM
- The ability to Run the editor outside of Gish so that you can have reference materials on a different screen.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on November 03, 2004, 05:08:20 PM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on November 03, 2004, 05:08:20 PM
What do you mean? You can already have anything on any screen while Gish is running.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: on November 04, 2004, 01:29:46 PM
Post by: on November 04, 2004, 01:29:46 PM
Yeah, that's true, but you have to Alt+Tab to get there (in Windows at least)... It's a bit annoying, and it sometimes also bugs up the level (everything appears as grey rectangles, and you have to load up the level again to get it back to normal)
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on November 04, 2004, 03:49:40 PM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on November 04, 2004, 03:49:40 PM
Gish isn't forced to fullscreen.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Sword King 22 on September 01, 2006, 03:07:09 AM
Post by: Sword King 22 on September 01, 2006, 03:07:09 AM
Gish isn't forced to fullscreen.
Yes you can change it from the options menu.
Now about Java. When Edmund was making Gish one of the main points of design was to use as little scripting as possible. I know that the editor has some flaws,(I myself would like to see a dynamic water engine) but is scripting really a wise thing to ask for. I know eventually the level format will be released. But as long as people can use a simple-if unweildy-tool to create levels as good as anyone at diverge could make I'll be happy.
Yes you can change it from the options menu.
Now about Java. When Edmund was making Gish one of the main points of design was to use as little scripting as possible. I know that the editor has some flaws,(I myself would like to see a dynamic water engine) but is scripting really a wise thing to ask for. I know eventually the level format will be released. But as long as people can use a simple-if unweildy-tool to create levels as good as anyone at diverge could make I'll be happy.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on September 01, 2006, 01:28:38 PM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on September 01, 2006, 01:28:38 PM
As far as I know the level format isn't officially released, but it's definitely not unknown.
From what I know there were no plans to have no scripting. It's just that it was more work that simply wasn't done for that reason. Also, lately I'm not so fond of Java anymore, but it's still nice cross-platform and security-wise.
My whole idea was to get around hardcoded restrictions. We now have basic cyclic pistons that can be activated by a few actions, and that's it. No, wait, there are also lights that can flicker in a predetermined way.
From what I know there were no plans to have no scripting. It's just that it was more work that simply wasn't done for that reason. Also, lately I'm not so fond of Java anymore, but it's still nice cross-platform and security-wise.
My whole idea was to get around hardcoded restrictions. We now have basic cyclic pistons that can be activated by a few actions, and that's it. No, wait, there are also lights that can flicker in a predetermined way.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Sword King 22 on September 01, 2006, 02:06:18 PM
Post by: Sword King 22 on September 01, 2006, 02:06:18 PM
From what I know there were no plans to have no scripting. It's just that it was more work that simply wasn't done for that reason. Also, lately I'm not so fond of Java anymore, but it's still nice cross-platform and security-wise.
Yeah, I guess it would be cool to make it optional. I might even try it out.
Yeah, I guess it would be cool to make it optional. I might even try it out.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Connor on September 18, 2006, 12:20:11 AM
Post by: Connor on September 18, 2006, 12:20:11 AM
Okay, here's some stuff:
- Rubber-bands
- Conveyor belts
- Pulleys
- Hollow Spheres
- Rubber-bands
- Conveyor belts
- Pulleys
- Hollow Spheres
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Sword King 22 on September 23, 2006, 08:45:51 PM
Post by: Sword King 22 on September 23, 2006, 08:45:51 PM
Most of those things exist.
Rubber bands are rope type 0, unfortunately they have to be invisible.
Conveyor belts are essentially many wheels rotating in a row.
I think there is a way to make pulleys (there is one in a level called octo-logic)
As for hollow wheels what uses could they have besides as a vehicle?
I think they should have; a way to make blocks and not just tiles do damage, a way to link enemies to objects via ropes or pistons, and a way to play as different characters.
Rubber bands are rope type 0, unfortunately they have to be invisible.
Conveyor belts are essentially many wheels rotating in a row.
I think there is a way to make pulleys (there is one in a level called octo-logic)
As for hollow wheels what uses could they have besides as a vehicle?
I think they should have; a way to make blocks and not just tiles do damage, a way to link enemies to objects via ropes or pistons, and a way to play as different characters.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: DaKiller on October 07, 2006, 10:40:50 AM
Post by: DaKiller on October 07, 2006, 10:40:50 AM
| Quote (Sword King 22 @ Sep. 23 2006,3:45) |
| ...and a way to play as different characters. |
What you can do is make an enemy the 'first' object by selecting it and pressing the home key... this way the camera follows the enemy. I think you can also see its health this way... not sure though.
Not really playing as another character, but it's close
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 07, 2006, 11:06:36 AM
Post by: Jonathan_NL on October 07, 2006, 11:06:36 AM
Ah, Wouter (DaKiller) is still around.
I don't have a working Gish install near me at the moment, so I can't check.
I don't have a working Gish install near me at the moment, so I can't check.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: DaKiller on October 07, 2006, 02:08:31 PM
Post by: DaKiller on October 07, 2006, 02:08:31 PM
Heh, yeah. Kind of forgot to check the forums for a while.
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Connor on October 15, 2006, 11:21:28 PM
Post by: Connor on October 15, 2006, 11:21:28 PM
Okay, wierdos, there was already a forum for this the admistrators set up, put this stuff THERE!!!!
Title: My ideal view of Gish+editor
Post by: Sword King 22 on November 19, 2006, 01:55:13 AM
Post by: Sword King 22 on November 19, 2006, 01:55:13 AM
What you can do is make an enemy the 'first' object by selecting it and pressing the home key... this way the camera follows the enemy. I think you can also see its health this way... not sure though.
Yeah, good advice. I meant something more along the lines of controlling Hera, Honeybucket, or the Clot Gobbler in single player. On a related note, enemies will only attack a tar character if it is the HOME character (that is to say that you are controlling it). If you just place an idle tar charater in a level, the enemies will just leave it alone.
Yeah, good advice. I meant something more along the lines of controlling Hera, Honeybucket, or the Clot Gobbler in single player. On a related note, enemies will only attack a tar character if it is the HOME character (that is to say that you are controlling it). If you just place an idle tar charater in a level, the enemies will just leave it alone.