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Topics - mongolian

#21
Every army has a counter, but still.  How many constructed armies are balanced?  Mistakes can be accountable, but I'm curious to find out if people think constructed is fair.  If not, what would it take to make it so?  For starters, removing the wizard and sergeant out of the equation would really make armies more balanced.  The ultimate goal should be to try to mimimize the rock-scissor-paper factor won by using key overpowered units.
#22
Zatikon Discussion / Is Zatikon to complex?
May 04, 2009, 06:27:18 PM
Being a fairly advanced player to Zatikon, one would think that the veterans of this game would have a handle on the game.  And yes, sure we do.  But, I suspect one of this games main flaws is it's complexity.  More specifically, everytime I log on, I am always learning a new way a piece interacts with a new piece.  Granted, this should be a positive experience, but when knowing or not knowing how those two pieces react, it's an unpleasant experience. 

Let's take a look at chess.  All the variables are played out, no surprises in attacks.  But if a rook all of a sudden got a new ability, the game would go topsy turvey.  I think Zatikon is the extreme example here. 

It's very crucial for Zatikon to have the pieces develop into a more balanced mix.  And the game has come a long way from where it was even 6 months ago.  At the same time, basic units are changing, a new piece is added every month and some neuances have changed in some units.  If you just rejoined a few months ago, your going to get a headache learning it all.

So, the game is too complex, I'm fine with that.  But, let's take a look closer.  Why is it I can't figure the answer out to what happens when 2 units attack.  Let's look at matyr vs possessed or matyr vs bounty hunter.  How about which direction a chieftan will let me move?  There are many examples of these scenarios where a player must painstaking figure out this solution only via gameplay.

I don't know how to end this conversation, but all I know is it's getting a bit too toxic playing with so many abilities.  Maybe if units were simpler, maybe if there wasn't so many uber powerful units..I'm not sure there is a correct answer.
#23
Units / Unit Change Log (balancing the game)
April 24, 2009, 02:05:32 PM
Discuss in this thread units and strategies that are spoiling the game as they are too powerful.   
#24
Zatikon Support / User Privledges and Moderators
April 21, 2009, 01:57:01 PM
With this game finally picking up some pace with more users, some bad apples got in.  More specifically teenagers who feel the need to insult or berate other users.  Also there are no rules for conduct in here and there needs to be set a precedance.  Many other games have their own rules so it would be easy to modify another's games rules of conduct.

Is it possable to have any of the following in the future:

(1) A Mute player button.  You won't hear any of player's chat and/or that player can not challenge you.

(2) Deny all incoming invite challenges.

(3) Moderators to boot users who get out of hand.
#25
Units / Bounty Hunter
April 21, 2009, 03:25:56 AM
So I originally misinterpreted this card as I thought Bounty Hunter made target immune from working.  Bounty hunter currently is just not good enough card.  It either needs 1 of the following:

(1) Can attack bounty hunted target from range 2 or 3.

or

(2) What ever bounty hunter targets, that unit can not attack with ranged attacks (or if you want to make really powerful, can not attack at all).  Clearly, certain units would stip be able to attack ranged, but not archers or sorcrerers.

The reason for this suggestion may or may not seem obvious, but this game is heavily revolved around ranged units and this would offer a nice solution to dilute that.
#26
Units / Alchemist
April 05, 2009, 11:30:22 AM
ALCHEMIST
---------------------------------------------
I'm very impressed at what a fun add-on this unit is.  Although, all I ever hear in the game is that "this piece is broken".  After much game testing, I think it's close to being fair, with slightly being overpowerful.  Sure, its strong in coop/2v2, but all other mages are more helpful in random/constructed.  If you want to test how "good" a unit is, try it out in constructed.  I played a close mirror match, where I had alchemist-druid and my opponent had wizard-druid.  His flying bears walked all over me.  I'm also only 2 for 5 with my alchemist deck, heh.

BTW, there seem to be major glitches with the strength(rock) potion.  A unit can not toss the rock if another unit is blocking the way.  This is completely untrue when it comes to catapult, so why should this be any different?

SUGGESTED ALCHEMIST CHANGES
---------------------------
(1) Make love potion a permanent potion.  But the "love" potion only lasts for 1 turn on enemy.  So you will gain control of love unit without stunned until end of turn (as love unit will get to move),  but then returns to owner at end of turn.

and/or

(2) Make Strength potion something like: Unit gets +3 or +4 power for 4-5 turns.  I also like to see more potions that last with expiration time periods.

Basically, Love + Strength potions are a bit too strong, so best to modify one of them.
#27
Zatikon Discussion / Gold Purchases (non-unit ideas)
March 29, 2009, 04:15:14 AM
I've written about this before, but I have to reiterate this after i spent a couple hours playing a cooperative game and only getting $178.  Long story short, I want something shiny for all this time & dough saved up.

GOLD SUGGESTIONS:
- $10,000: you get a parrot with your avatar
- $50,000: either get a woman in avatar or sound effect of woman moaning or woman saying "my hero" when you enter a battle.
- $50,000: your gateguards have that black aura that the possessed unit has.
- $10,000: gain 100 exp. (or something feasable according to rank)
- $100/500/1000/10,000/25,000/50,000: new avatar
(pauper/normal/knight/prince/wizard/king)
- $10,000: change the welcoming audio to something different
- $50,000: hero music sound byte plays when you enter a battle.

#28
Zatikon Discussion / In-Game Stories
March 28, 2009, 03:55:03 PM
TELL US YOUR FAVORITE GAME STORY:
---------------------------------------------
So I was about to concede.  My opponent was using a warlock, 4 pikeman, a ballista, healer and a tac.  I had 4 ranger, scout with an assassin.  I accidentally clicked early turning my ranger to close range and also accidentally got 1 of my rangers killed with his ballista.  I managed to kill 1 of the 4 pikeman but here is what happened:

I had 4 units left on the board (1 ranger, 3 wolf).  I had to sacrifice all three wolfs so my ranger wouldnt get attacked, leaving me with only my sole ranger.  My ranger kills the warlock, but it's his turn and he has 3 pikeman, 1 ballista and 1 healer. You have to keep in mind, if healer heals any 1 pikeman, my ranger ain't killing that pikeman unless 3 attacks.  I retreated my ranger back and summoned up my assassin.  Several moves later I miraculously won the game with my assassin poisoning all three pikeman and my ranger picking off the rest.  Insanity.
#29
Units / Assassin
March 22, 2009, 10:45:04 PM


Assassin
Two solutions as it is currently too powerful:
(1) Make it $200

or

(2) It summons normally, but after its summoned it's ability mimics a weaker version of the axeman:
Power 3, Armor 0, Life 2/2
- Lowers enemy armor to 0, Kill unarmored enemies
#30
Units / Super Unit Abilities
March 08, 2009, 06:14:06 AM
Overall, let me start off to say, the super abilities are super amazing and I'm so happy to see them in the game.  But, the game still needs more balancing for coop/single player.  A few things that bother me:

(1) The current AI acts 2x the power of it's supposed level. Aka, playing a level 30ai, feels like a level 60ai.
This may not seem like a big deal, but it's very intimidating from a new player perspective as it's more drastic leveling up in single player mode.

(2) Zatikon CAN NOT work with only 20% of the units being helpful.  What I mean by this, is that any level 150+ AI, means that 80% of all the units are going to be pointless to use.   If the game is revolving around using priest/draco/feather serpeant, why are we playing this game?  Zatikon needs to revolve around combat related units.  A pikeman or a footman even in large numbers should be useful against the AI, but it's way too watered down to work now.  Perhaps if there was a better scale level of AI then the current model these changes wouldnt feel so drastic.

Solutions to the the new *Super units*
-----------------------------------------
(1) Tweek the value of what a Super unit is worth so it's not as frequent.
(2) Certain abilities like clockwork or Vampiric should be more rare aka more points per any level.
(3) Limit some of the current *super* abilities a bit more.  *Attacking anywhere within 5 seems to be the biggest problem, but only cause it's combined with power 5/6 units.  I don't mind seeing all the new unit abilities, but when you combine then with also making units 5/2 or 4/1 scenarios is too powerful for an attack within 5 (pikeman/archers).
(3) Limit the unit abilities specific units can recieve.  Most sorcerers should be restricted to specific abilities, same goes for archers, elephants etc.  Each unit I would have to go into detail at how too overpowerful each specific ability is.

Again, with amy solutions, the goal is to make coop/single player a bit more fun & beatable.  I can't stress how much I love the upgrades and feel it's pretty close to being perfect. 
#31
Units / New Unit Ideas
March 03, 2009, 09:27:46 PM
It dawned on me what this game really needs:

1-2 Infantry type of units, *Immune to ranged attacks.
Then, add a new sorcerer: adds immune to ranged attacks (only works on non-ranged units)
#32
Units / Armor 3 Units
February 28, 2009, 08:33:05 PM
So, I know this game has no armor 3 units (unless your counting feather serpeants), but why not? I don't want to see the game progress to many stalemate scenarios, but on the samehand, if the magus is going to be invinciple, it needs to have units it can't kill like tacticians.

Perhaps, certain units just need to say "immune to magus", otherwise, please bring on some defense 3 units to try to make the game a bit more defendable.  And let me be specific about armor 3 units.  These units should ONLY be reserved for specific units.  Also, the default armor of pumping up units alla enchanter would still be limited to armor 2.
#33
Zatikon Discussion / Tactical Zatikon Mode
February 16, 2009, 03:30:18 PM
Tactical Zatikon Mode
How it works: Every army is a mirrored army where both players use the same units.  Each of these armies are hand-carved by the game makers to prevent bad stalemate armies.   There would be appoximately 10 random mirror armies that the computer would pick from to prevent always using the exact same mirror army.  There is also NO LIMIT to how few or how many points can be used in the "tactical zatikon mode" for mirror armies.

Here are a few premade armies to help show you what I mean:
#34
Zatikon Discussion / Best Random Army
February 09, 2009, 05:33:38 PM
I'll try not to gloat too much, but this draw was soo good, I had to offer a draw after I crushed.

- 1 mimic
- 1 shaman
- 1 abjurer
- 1 mounted archer
- 1 cav
- 2 tactician
- ...something missing..
#35
Zatikon Discussion / The Big Three Ruining the game
February 03, 2009, 08:27:18 PM
All in all, I really think most of the upgrades are very impressive.  Unfortunately, there are 3 units left that are very troublesome.  I played a top 20 player (unnamed) and today after my assassin stunned his whole group:

QUOTE
i think i quit this game, and find a new one


I've explained this before, but I'll try to go in depth here:

UNIT PROBLEM #1: Magus
As if it wasn't bad ass enough he stuns for 5, puts on critters that autokill, the main big problem with this unit is that it is absolutely unkillable.  A game can not produce units that are 100% unkillable.  Put yourself in the frame of mind of an average or new player.  They will have a swarm of army and problablly not know what to do about it.  Two-three turns later you advance your magus and you start picking off almost anything that looks ediable.  There is going to be next to nothing your opponent can do but go all out attack.  This being the case, the remaineder of your units are generally setup for.  The bigger complaint here isn't that its not beatable, but that is just isn't fun playing against.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
I really like The magus's other abilities, they are worth $350, but when a magus turns into a spirit he should have one of the following:
(1) Spirit unsommons after 10 turns. Not less or more, exactly on turn 10. Can change to 10-15 too with more testing.
(2) Spirit has attack damage 2.  This will make all structes safe and most defense 2.
(3) Start implementing units with defense 3, but this would take a huge analysis within.
(4) My last option, give him power 5 or 6 and only moves once per turn in his magus state.

UNIT PROBLEM #2: Wizard
Your probablly all saying, no way, wizard is $350, that's already too much.  Well, for those non-vets that don't comprehend this game, Zatikon is all about range.  The wizard in a block of other $50 units is elite.  Or just slap him together with any type of archer or wizard and bam-o, unbeatable units.  The main problem isn't seeing wizard on a general or any normal unit that moves 3, but the long range stuff.  Again, it's not fun playing this game starting a battle your opponent has no chance winning.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
(1) He gives all units 1 extra movement. You can combine this with whatever the units normal movement is.
(2) Stay with the current model, but any jump counts as that unit's normal moving spaces.
(3) Wizard only gives ranged units 1 extra movement vs 2.

UNIT PROBLEM #3: Assassin
Three scenarios here make the new assassin too elite.  1, combine with a ranger, dump out a jumpable wolf and unsommon. BAM.  #2, the super long range of 5 rider's and then assassin.  #3, unkillable bezerkers and BAAAAAAAm.  Combine all three scenarios and you truly have an overpowerful combo lists to use with the remained of your units.  The stem of this problem is that the assassin stun is just too powerful when combined with other units.  It's virtually undefendable in most scenarios and it's a sure likely fire to make your opponent concede and close this application.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:
(1) Agreed that the assassin is too powerful, pop him back to a $200 pricetag.  
(2) Return the assassin to what it was and only have his poison darts have a range of 2 vs 3.  If you think this was not enough, then also add:
(3) Return assassin to how it was, but it can not make autokill when summoned.
#36
Zatikon Discussion / Audio and Sound Effects
January 24, 2009, 03:46:20 AM
This has been said before, but I'm here to just reiterate it.  It was fun opening up zatikon for the first 5-10 times and hearing that sound piece, but it extraordinarily annoying.  I really don't think its possable for any music piece to be exciting here.  Even if a new song played everytime I came in it would be annoying.

Some ideas for intro-audio:
1. Have Zatikon play the music only open the first time ever opening it.  Every other time it is defaulted for mute.

2. Replace the intro song with a sound effect (something war related).

3. Keep the intro song, but fade out the audio after a couple seconds.
#37
Zatikon Discussion / In-Game Pet Peaves
January 20, 2009, 06:04:23 PM
I'm sure we all have a little story about how we gipped on a game. But, one of my big pet peaves is when I play someone in a game, lose and they don't let me rematch. Sure, if you win, they want a rematch.  But, a 1 game win against me, quick, cash in the chips in!  I understand people may not have time for another game, but with (1) low population in game and (2) that same person still stays in the game for a while, wtf?  Please save me from your lame excuses why you can't play again...

In any event, I can't even just say, ooh well, I won't play that person again cause there is just not enough people around.
#38
Units / Changeling
January 14, 2009, 02:06:19 PM
http://www.pontifex2.com/images/Changeling.JPG" border="0">

Welcome to the brand new virtually unbeatable constructed deck!  All due to the unkillable changeling!

Deck contents of unbeatable constructed deck:
- 2 changeling
- 1 engineer
- 1 barracks
- 2 general
- 2 tacs
- 1 gateguard

How the deck is unbeatable:
Rush 1 changeling up as far as possable.  There you immediately kill anything that is a threat.  There is nothing that should stop this.  Meanwhile, on turn 2, your entire army is out and you can start making soldiers for protection.
#39
Zatikon Discussion / $25 vs $50 increments
January 06, 2009, 06:43:37 PM
I realise that it's alot cooler to lump unit into $50 increments, but this way, the units that under/over powerful could now go +/- $25.   Additionally, if you had $25 increments, I reccomend making a new category:

Summons, pretty much everythig that summons falls in the $25 range: skeleton, imp, zombie, wolf, serpeant, soldier, toad (Demon = $50)
#40
Units / Golem
January 03, 2009, 11:51:25 PM
http://www.pontifex2.com/images/Golem.JPG" border="0">

Golems really make this game fun and intruiging.  I'm so glad they exist.  But in technicality, the desciption of it needs to change:

OLD: "immune to all effects"
NEW: "immune to all effects not organic"


Why? because an ally engineers can heal it.  And an enemy engineer can destroy it.