Author Topic: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)  (Read 17118 times)

mongolian

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Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« on: August 06, 2009, 09:47:30 AM »
Wyvern - Movement needs to be modifed.  It's currently way too weak for $550.

Changeling - Need to be swap within 5 not 6.

Doppleganger - whenever a dopple is hurt, it's max HP is reduced to whatever it was damaged for.  Aka, if the original gets hurt, then the clone will become that HP not the original.

Armory - Every 3 or 4 turns, can give 1 unit +1 power (casting within range 2)

Conjurer - Range of Casting to 3.  Both portals only have range 3.

Sergeant - Unit must be retargeted each turn.

Chronic Logic - Josiah

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 01:02:38 PM »
Wyvern - Movement needs to be modifed.  It's currently way too weak for $550.

I agree it needs something more.  I think two attacks and attacks that completely remove the unit from the game (eaten) so the knight would not dismount or the berserk would not survive another round.

Changeling - Need to be swap within 5 not 6.

Totally agree.

Doppleganger - whenever a dopple is hurt, it's max HP is reduced to whatever it was damaged for.  Aka, if the original gets hurt, then the clone will become that HP not the original.

I think the Dopp seems fine how it is right now.

Armory - Every 3 or 4 turns, can give 1 unit +1 power (casting within range 2)

Great idea, the Armory needs something more.

Conjurer - Range of Casting to 3.  Both portals only have range 3.

Portals have already been changed to range 3 and casting them is range 3 as well.  Need to see how the gate plays with range 4, maybe it should just be cast within range 3.

Sergeant - Unit must be retargeted each turn.

Good idea for the sergeant.

Lunaraia

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 02:25:22 PM »
wyverns swallow ability shouldd become a passive one, I meen it gobbels something down to eat it, nonw unless your trying to tell me that the wyvern is picky (something all lore about wyverns contredict) this SHOULD also affect inoganic units aswell as organic ones, reduce hatching time to 2 turns
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Lunaraia

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 03:03:59 PM »
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE

Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes

Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.

Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes

Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all

Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units

Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power

General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed

Artificer - Need a defesive ability as it is now it is practically helpless, and not even close to units like wizard or enchanter, add recharge on inorging if you have to just get it a defensive ability

Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power  or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 03:06:37 PM by Lunaraia »
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JoeMaster

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 10:18:49 PM »
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE

Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes

Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.

Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes

Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all

Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units

Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power

General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed

Artificer - Need a defesive ability as it is now it is practically helpless, and not even close to units like wizard or enchanter, add recharge on inorging if you have to just get it a defensive ability

Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power  or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed



towers - agreed

Barracks - agreed they need to be buffed.  2 actions or 100 points

Arch Angel - inability to capture castle would be fine, it is supposed to be mostly support anyway.  i would really hope it can't die from wyvern though considering it is supposed to be immortal

Channeler - they suck up a lot of commands for all that power.  sure a warlock is comparable, but those extra points are getting used in command, and then your base is more congested.  they are underused if anything....

Shield Maiden - agreed, shield maiden should take the poison.  If you get hit by a poison arrow why does the arrow hurt the maiden but the poison on the tip of the arrow poisons the other unit?

Changeling - Agreed, you would have to protect your changling better.  Would keep it more interesting

Longbowman - 4 power would balance this unit perfectly.

Artificer - Agreed, but only a very weak attack.  It would be nice to have some sort of attack, even if it was 2 range 3 power or something

Spirit - Agreed, 1 possibly 2 power.  Very annoying unit to have on the battlefield, ruins the fun of the game if they have all that power.  Mostly needs to be dropped below 3 so that it cannot pierce heavy armor.  I am not a fan of this unit at all, but if it must stay, lower the damage

Lunaraia

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 07:07:47 AM »
Channeler - they suck up a lot of commands for all that power.  sure a warlock is comparable, but those extra points are getting used in command, and then your base is more congested.  they are underused if anything....

perhaps but ad a command post and voila commands are no longer an issue specially since channeler armies tend to be semi defensive annd use many turns just hanging in the back charging their power
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Norsker

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 12:28:44 PM »
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE
Can't say I agree-they can present a serious hurdle in random as is.

Quote
Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes

The barracks is good for what it is- a cheap source of summoned units.  I've used it regularly when I want to feed a diabolist/confessor/mourner when I don't want to spend 100/200 more construction points on a druid/summoner/necromancer.

Quote
Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.  

The Aegis or effective immortality could stand to be weakened somewhat-perhaps remove the immortality and give it paladin style survivability.

Quote
Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes

The channeler should probably cost 50 more points.

Quote
Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all

Magical protection!

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Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units

So I can swap for someone's dragon, kill the changling I used, and laugh at the 150 for 550 point swap I just made?  

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Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power

The longbowman is a superb defender- I've lost several games to longbowman-empowered soldiers/generals.

Quote
General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed

The general should be able to give 2 extra commands once a game.

Quote
Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power  or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed

350 points is quite a bit for a slow moving, 3 power(albeit invincible) unit.  I think it's fine as is.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 12:38:52 PM by Norsker »

mongolian

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 09:46:51 AM »
Changeling needs 5 range swap vs 6.  This makes him more reasonable as it can fall within 5 ranged units.  6 range is just too much.

Barracks. I could see Barracks as a 100 pt unit, but 2 summons a turn is a bit too much, but a 100 pt barracks seems too cheap. A 100 pt barracks, needs to have soldiers with 1 less hp or armor then.

Channeler is fine as is.  It costs alot of actions and takes a while to get working.  It's a feasable unit that only gets exploited when someone doesn't what they are doing or used in extreme conditions.

Shield Maiden Is perfect as is.  No need to redirect poison from an assassin.

General would be nice to see +1 power and 1 less action.  Maybe just +1 or +2 hp would be a better solution though.

Magus's Spirit is yes a crazy unit.  I don't mind it's 2 actions, but maybe it should only be able to attack once per turn. Or give it +1 power and only one action.

Longbowman Just feels too expensive to me..idk Maybe $50 less.

Chronic Logic - Josiah

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 12:13:58 PM »
towers - Not really a fan of towers in general, I think they are fine as is.

Barracks - Two solders a turn would be too much, Barracks only cost 150, they are a good cheap summoning unit.

Arch Angel - removing it's ability to capture the castle would not make it less powerful.  Maybe it needs more offense but no immortality.

Channeler - I agree the channeler is one of the most over powered units.  Not sure what it needs exactly.  Maybe it should start with 2 power but only game 1 per turn?

Changeling - I think changing range from 6 to 5 will make a big difference.

Longbowman - Not sure about the Longbowman, have not tested it enough.

General - +1 power might be the boost the general needs.

Artificer - I think the artificer is plenty powerful.  Mages are not supposed to have defensive abilities, they are mages.

Spirit - I think this unit is fine considering everything out there, its limited power and actions don't make it that much of a threat

Lunaraia

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2009, 10:38:27 AM »
towers - Not really a fan of towers in general, I think they are fine as is.

Barracks - Two solders a turn would be too much, Barracks only cost 150, they are a good cheap summoning unit.

Artificer - I think the artificer is plenty powerful.  Mages are not supposed to have defensive abilities, they are mages.

Spirit - I think this unit is fine considering everything out there, its limited power and actions don't make it that much of a threat


Towers - after being added up 50 has made random the only time they are hardly used, and as is in my opinion they just aint worth it

Artificer - there are plenty og mages with defensive abilities 1 of em are enchanter, give the artificer a range 2 single unit stun, with it's single action it will be able to either support or protect itself wont get to powerful yet still will be able to do something to aid out even after all units have been made inorganic and whatnot

Spirit - As I said the bane of ANY army relying on Siege units or Structures, seriously 1 spirit would tear sutch armies apart even with an artificer there the siege units would have to move or et blasted to nothing on the following turn after the spirit stops near em, rendering them completely useless, and buildings would be hurt every turn forcing the artificer if any is on the field to constantly repair instead of making more inorgs and boosting armor, and that is IF you have one, and even if you do nothing will prevent the spirit from targeting it and even with 2 armor it wouldn't survive more then 1 round unless it kept on moving and then it is only till the spirit manages to corner it meanwhile the rest of the units will be able to act to but the inorganic units would not be repaired nor boosted meaning that they would be smashed pretty fast since sutch armies normaly rely on repairs to sruvive in the long run... solution 2 power end of story
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Norsker

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 09:31:03 PM »
My problem with the conjurer wasn't necessarily the range;  it was(and is) the fact that there is no clean way to destroy the portals without inorganics.  When someone destroys a portal, they more or less know that that unit is a goner.   

That would be alright-if portals couldn't be resummoned each turn.  You kill one, lose a unit, and then another one pops right up.  You can try and rush the conjurer, but this is a crapshoot-portal placement alone can create a substantial obstacle to attacking units(either by blocking a path itself, or using the unit that just destroyed it to block the path) and a pikeman or tower ends a rush dead in its tracks.  Even if you manage to land that satisfying killing blow on the conjurer, you've probably sacrificed several units to do so(probably more construction points than the conjurer was worth).  Of course, you can't sit back and hope to maneuver around it-the longer you wait, the more cluttered the playing field becomes with portals.  I don't think I've lost a random where I was given a conjurer, and I doubt I've won more than one when my opponent received one.

In summary, do away with this 'suck in and stun' nonsense. 

Chronic Logic - Josiah

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 10:46:47 PM »
Towers - after being added up 50 has made random the only time they are hardly used, and as is in my opinion they just aint worth it

Artificer - there are plenty og mages with defensive abilities 1 of em are enchanter, give the artificer a range 2 single unit stun, with it's single action it will be able to either support or protect itself wont get to powerful yet still will be able to do something to aid out even after all units have been made inorganic and whatnot

Spirit - As I said the bane of ANY army relying on Siege units or Structures, seriously 1 spirit would tear sutch armies apart even with an artificer there the siege units would have to move or et blasted to nothing on the following turn after the spirit stops near em, rendering them completely useless, and buildings would be hurt every turn forcing the artificer if any is on the field to constantly repair instead of making more inorgs and boosting armor, and that is IF you have one, and even if you do nothing will prevent the spirit from targeting it and even with 2 armor it wouldn't survive more then 1 round unless it kept on moving and then it is only till the spirit manages to corner it meanwhile the rest of the units will be able to act to but the inorganic units would not be repaired nor boosted meaning that they would be smashed pretty fast since sutch armies normaly rely on repairs to sruvive in the long run... solution 2 power end of story

Towers:
The last few constructed games I have played were vs people using towers.  They can be used to help protect units that need time to develop your army which is a good use, however having so many that you can't advance at all encourage games that stall and no one is willing to mount an offensive which is exactly what we would like to avoid.

Artificer:
Can make it's self inorganic and give 2 armor and heal it's self.  That is something defensive.

Spirit:
I was never a fan of the Spirit and complained about it since the beginner but I really don't see it being a problem anymore.  What you describe is exactly the point of the Spirit, keep people from sitting back and drawing games out for hours making every unit inorganic with 2 armor or summing dozens of soldiers or lining up more towers then anyone can deal with.  That said the Spirit still can't do that great of a job of breaking a siege because if you have a Artificer for your inorganic units you can easily up their armor to two before the Spirit can get close and then you can heal them, even if it costs your action every turn that is fine as the spirit and the Artificer both cost 350 so one taking up all the others actions is not a problem.  If you have a healer, mason, any healing unit with a couple footman or similar units or anything that can summon units you can block a Spirit and keep it from getting to any of your important units.

Lunaraia

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 12:36:20 PM »
in my opinopn Diabolist's target for an explosion should be removed from the game IE can't be reborn, being reborn woulnd't make sence since the soul was used to blow the target up, no soul no rebirth, mekes sence no?
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Kran

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 11:16:41 AM »
When the unit return the diabolist do not gain the soul... Longbowman is perfect, please dont make it stronger.

mongolian

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Re: Update* on Units that need to be tweeked (over/under powered)
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 11:58:58 AM »
Quote
if you have a Artificer for your inorganic units you can easily up their armor to two before the Spirit


This is so wrong in many ways.  Let's think about random a bit more here.  Not like we get a choice of what we get.  2ndly, an artficer is generally a terrable unit to draw in random (waste of 350 in most scenarios).  Lastly and most importantly, let's say I do draw an artficer vs your spirit.  Let me guess which side of the coin you want to be on??? spirit.  And this is the your best counter answer?  Why is this bad, I can run all the way up to your artficer (With 2 armor).  It will die soon enough and you will never have enough to clear your lines, unless an all out offense present's it self.  That's not logical at all. 

Options for Spirit:
(1) 1 action but power 4, 5 or 6.
(2) 2 actions but can only attack once. (maybe change power to 4).
(3) In X amount of turns (maybe 10) Spirit will revert back to Magus form and will be tapped.