Author Topic: balancing random  (Read 7129 times)

minime

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balancing random
« on: June 21, 2009, 06:02:04 AM »
we write a lot about random in the forum how it could be more balanced. I don't see why you don't do nothing about it. It is totally pointless to add new units if there isn't any balanced player vs player game format (and if the new units are not balanced themselves, there'll be just even more trouble). I think it would be very easy to handle at least the draco, armory, possessed etc issue. Please choose a game format and make it more playable.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 09:47:07 AM by minime »

mongolian

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 11:05:58 AM »
oouch, harsh post, but true.  As discussed before:

RANDOM: just remove possessed, dracho & armory from the list. This should allievate most of the pain to not to have to redraw.  Long option: a redraw system.

CONSTRUCTED: ..there is no simple answer for this one.  I want to see a "limited constructed" play-test each month and only allow certain sets of units.  This will limit the options and make more balanced armies.  There are currently too many options, aka, too much rock-scissor-paper in uber combos that makes this format unplayable.

SINGLE & COOP: long answer...boss mode

minime

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 02:28:28 PM »
oouch, harsh post, but true.

I didn't want it to be harsh :-\. sry. I just really don't see why there isn't any improvement in random. maybe there is a reason, because solving some of the problems would be easy.

I have an other game format idea btw. It is like the sealed deck in mtg. each player get a bigger random unit pool(like 2000 gold or maybe more) and they have to build an army form them. this is between the constructed and the random too. (but i think it would take much less time to balance random, than implement a new format)

Kran

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 03:40:19 AM »
I liked the new idea format. But that would increase the number of uber combos in random. What need to happen is balancement the units.

mongolian

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 12:15:54 PM »
I've suggested a "Draft" format. Like opening packs of cards, but packs of units here and you would go back and forth with opponent.  After choices, then players would play games with those decks.  I love the idea, but am terrified how much effort would be needed, despite being a great idea.  Still think it's more important to focus on simple solutions with fixing the formats up now though..

mongolian

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 12:20:41 PM »
I've recently restarted to play 100+ level single player.  Now, even my best deck barely wins.  Without changeling, i'm pretty sure it's not possable.  But in coop, my deck almost always wins.  Single and cooperative modes should not be treated the same way.  The sooner Zatikon distances these two modes from one another, the better.

Without the use of priest and mainly changeling (aka units that steal opponent's pieces) the AI is too strong.  I remember when I used to play single/coop and had the potential to win with just towers or normal units that damage.  This is NOT an option today.  So, if 90% of the units are pointless to use again a lvl 100+ AI, that should be a big warning something needs to change.

Seeing as coop is the most popular format, I suggest the following:
(1) Convert single player, into a boss mode.  Boss mode could mean the AI starts out with a super boss unit that combines yellow powers or multiple pieces.  Then, all other points/units the AI can use are severally limited.  Maybe if the boss dies, the AI can no longer bring out new units.

(2) AI will be able to use the changeling the turn it swaps.  Changeling is too good a unit against the AI.  But, doing this means #3  

(3) AI must be weakened in some way for cooperative.  The simplest way to me, is restricting the AI to 4 summoning units per turn, vs the 5 slots.  
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 11:01:51 AM by mongolian »

Chronic Logic - Josiah

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 11:27:42 AM »
I agree random needs a couple tweaks or a redraw system.  Single and Co-op both need a overhaul to improve the variety of useful armies.  We are working on all these things don't worry :)

Norsker

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 12:10:00 PM »
'Random' should give the same random army to both players.  As it is, both the outcome of a random game and a constructed game can more or less be decided before the game starts, as one player's units may be very effective against the other's. 

That's perfectly fine in constructed, where half the fun is thinking up and building armies(often designed to fight combos you know your opponent likes to use) and you expect to eventually run into a counter yourself. 
 
I would prefer to make random more of a chess game, where 'board geometry', rather than unit choice(or rather, randomized unit allocation) is the important factor.  One could hardly complain about being dealt a terrible hand by the randomizer if your opponent receives the same units.   

Kran

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 05:41:34 PM »
That would be great, but would increase to about very much percent of draws in top level.

Norsker

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 11:45:18 AM »
That would be great, but would increase to about very much percent of draws in top level.

After thinking about it, I retract the suggestion;  it would indeed lead to a lot of very long draws. 

Chronic Logic - Josiah

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 03:42:13 PM »
Random actually used to be exactly that, both players would get the exact same randomly chosen army.  It was interesting because it was about how to utilize the unit combos more effectively and obviously not make any mistakes.  It might be interested to try it now with all the new units, I could see it as an alternative to the current random mode, keeping the current one as the main random mode.

Kran

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009, 07:17:15 PM »
This could be tested. Doesnt sound much hard to implement.

mongolian

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Re: balancing random
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 09:17:25 AM »
I've always wanted mirror armies.  How about create a new mode with those random armies?  Name it what you will, maybe chess mode?  Otherwise, I've written entire threads on chess-like modes..