Author Topic: Contest Bridge?  (Read 28567 times)

Calis

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Contest Bridge?
« on: October 20, 2001, 04:07:56 PM »
Hmm.. not post any numbers? Why do you think it discourages ppl? I think, everyone who is addicted like me is *encouraged* by having a certain goal.
To see what is possible always motivates me to reach at least the same :)

CL, by removing numbers that have been visible for a while to some lucky guys you have created an unfair advantage to these, IMHO. Now they know what is at least needed to win - but I (and most others) dont know these numbers :(

As you cannot prevent that people talk with each other, I'd say there is no point in censoring posts here.
Especially since the rules dont forbid such conversation.
Think about it..   and let us at least know whether
the numbers had 5 or 6 digits ;)


larsberg

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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2001, 04:08:57 PM »
I have submitted my bridge.

The budget is (biiiiip). I'm looking forward to the close of the competition.

Lars...

Lars...

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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2001, 04:49:43 PM »
Calis,

The reason we have asked for you not to post numbers is for the exact reason you've stated.   We don't want the goal of the contest to keep changing so that you are always trying to beat the best post on the forum, we want you to just build the best bridge you can.  Posting numbers also makes people want to wait for until the last minute to submit their bridge, because they always want to be sure that theirs is beating the lowest post.  It also discourages other people from participating, because once they see a score that they can't possibly beat, they will quit.  We want you to submit it when you think you've done the best you can, and feel good about it.  

As far as an unfair advantage goes, we caught the post less than an hour after it was posted, and no one who read it knows whether the numbers are even genuine or not.  There are still 6 days left in the contest and that gives everyone plenty of time to optimize their bridges.

I don't know how much more official I can make it.  We are the people who made the rules and we are the ones who've asked you not to post numbers.  If you feel like our request does not hold enough authority, we can always amend the rules if that will make it seem more legitimate.

We're not trying to censor anybody, we just want to keep maintain the integrity of the contest.  This is the first one and we made a mistake by not including this request, but we'll make sure to put it in future contests.

If this seems harsh, we don't mean it to be.  We just wanted to answer your questions and justify our request.  We appreciate your feedback and hope even if you don't agree with us, that you understand where we are coming from.

-Chronic Logic


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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2001, 05:33:57 PM »
I submitted my bridge. I did want to work on it anymore. I need to clean my other bridges.

larsberg

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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2001, 06:17:31 PM »
(This posting has been retracted by the poster as he was unaware of the posting of Calis at the time the message was written)

(Edited by larsberg at 6:12 pm on Oct. 20, 2001)

Lars...

Calis

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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2001, 03:26:42 PM »
Just put my bridge into their mailbox, at least I hope so ;)
As you never know whether an email arrives or not, some confirmation (automated reply) would be nice.

Now the waiting starts.. maybe thats the positive effect of not discussing numbers.. there is some tension now ;)


Sarterixa

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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2001, 09:23:42 PM »
Heh heh... no possible way a bridge for the contest could be less than 6 digits.  I never saw the number, but it doesn't really matter since I already submitted my bridge.  

Working on a bridge for hours to reduce the cost by a few thousand dollars is kinda a pain, plus everybody builds bridges differently and you could be on the wrong track when revising your bridge.


Proj2501

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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2001, 03:58:28 PM »
Phew... after a good few hours, my submission is in.

Not gonna mention any figures, but ive been working on it all night, after having a random idea hit me while at work (which felt like someone maybe dropped the HAV on me...).

Bit of improvement from my original bridge, too - it takes up to 8 cars, athough practically every single link stresses to near breaking point with just 7 cars - that might just be my crappy design, tho.

Still, given me something to do for the last few nights while my GF is overseas ;)

As Calis mentioned, the stress is really getting to me too now.... aggggghhhh!

Good luck to everyone else, and whoever betters my bridge (bound to be someone) _deserves_ the title of Pontifex Maximus!

"What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror... soon we shall see, face to face."

JohnK

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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2001, 10:17:58 PM »
I would agree with CL. The sight of a rediculously low number, especially if it was fake would be enough to turn many people off from even trying. If someone is working without a specific cost in mind, they are more likely to build the bridge they feel is the best and cheapest it could be.
While the learning curve for this game is short, the learning curve of how to build strong cheap bridges can be humongous. some people in these forums only recently discovered pontifex, while other have been playing for close to a month, and had already mastered bridge builder.
Unless everyone at least thinks[\i] they have a chance, everyone might not spend time to be the best pontifex they can be.

That is all.


Proj2501

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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2001, 03:59:35 PM »
Wow... I started page 6, too!

Yay me!

(Edited by Proj2501 at 11:15 pm on Oct. 23, 2001)

"What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror... soon we shall see, face to face."

Calis

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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2001, 01:16:50 AM »
Well, I see your point, CL. Dont take my postings harsh, too. This *is* the first contest and we all have to learn :)

I helped to organize contests and rules (sim racing, hot laps and races - online and offline) since more than 5 years now.

Here is what I think:

Your approach (not discussing numbers during the event) will lead to rather different designs and a wide spreaded score range (maybe shocking/frustrating people - just imagine a guy who send in a 220k bridge he is proud of finding out the winner did it with 20k [numbers are pure phantasy! 20k isnt enough to lay the deck now :) ])
It is a nice approach to get many different solutions.
I think, this community is strong enough not to cheat
(since you can put the no discussion part into the rules but there is no way to enforce it, no way to detect cheaters, ..) I had no problems with a similar thing years ago.

I would like to see a different type of contest here (not saying that all others are worse!):

More time (let's say a month), more than one entry per participant encouraged, newest one counts. Regular updates (daily if it can be automated) of the best solutions so far. Discussion encouraged, maybe even designs disclosed.
This emphasizes to find the best possible solution. People will push each other to lower and lower numbers. And the goal for the best shifts from winning the contest to the goal of staying ahead in the daily update (even if there is no prize for that one, I have seen this more than once - the human mind is twisted ;)

This ruleset has some advantages:
No problem with people whining about their discarded entries (they can always make a corrected submission).
Doesnt rely on rules no one can enforce.


JohnK

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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2001, 04:32:05 PM »
This contest has recommited me to beating grey and the others at their riduculously low bridge costs in the normal levels. No luck so far, but I will eventually catch them.

MrTaco

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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2001, 03:12:33 AM »
The anticipation is killing me... can't wait till the 26th...
Just spent the last 8 hours designing/fine tuning my design and I guess about all I can legally say is that I'm pretty happy with my result. I have *NEVER* seen so much deep blue and deep red in one design before and even I can't believe it doesn't go POP. But hey it works ':)'

I don't really have anything to say I guess (since we're not allowed to post numbers). I just wanted to write something cuz I think I'm "done" now and not quite ready for bed.

If anyone has anything interesting to say then just post. I'm sorta bored with anticipation of a result that won't be known for another week.

MrTaco


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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2001, 07:53:46 PM »
I've been undecided as to whether I think outlawing the posting of amounts for the contest bridge is a good idea - however, I now believe it is.

Over the past couple of days I've managed to reduce the cost of my bridge by far more than I would've believed possible when I made my first crude working attempt. If someone had posted the figure I now have a couple of days ago, I would've given up there and then.

That's not bragging, I still fully expect to get beaten - but even if I do, I'll be justly proud of my bridge. I've took it a lot further than I ever thought I could - and isn't that the whole point?


Entroper

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Contest Bridge?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2001, 09:48:40 AM »
Be careful when you say "American time"; the contintental U.S. spans four time zones.  ':)'  7:00 p.m. EST or 4:00 p.m. PST are after the deadline.
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