Author Topic: WinXP ?  (Read 4004 times)

waiverman

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« on: October 28, 2001, 08:03:23 AM »
I've just upgraded to Windows XP and now Pontifex runs terrible!  It's like I've gone from a 1 ghz machine to a 486 without a math co-processor.  I've tried the "compatibility mode" built into WinXP to no avail.  Any help or comments?

baggio

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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2001, 02:08:49 AM »
Quote: from Entroper on 6:24 pm on Oct. 29, 2001
What I'm talking about IS the out of box drivers.OOB drivers, are the drivers that come with the OS, either by upgrade, or by OEM installation. Few OEM manufacturers will bother to install additional video card drivers if the drivers that come with the OS are sufficient. Really, that is a good thing.

For one, for the average user, it means that when troubleshooting, the manufacturer can almost eliminate from the equation any problems with a rogue driver. The drivers that come with the OS are certified, and rigorusly tested before they are accepted. This is often why the OS drivers have fewer features.

This is also more conveinent for the OEM manufacturer of the computer. Although it is possible to image a computer's harddisk, with NT, and now with Windows XP, changing the SID on each installation, and providing unique keys makes images almost obsolete.  It would in some ways be eaiser to install then OS, leaving the OOB drivers.

beaujob: I wouldn't mind doing kung-fu in the shadow of a bridge that I built while death and a clown get it on in the bathtub next door, but that's a long ways off.

jwkuipers

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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2001, 11:19:23 AM »
Hey I got XP on 4 machines at Pontifex runs great. However a friend of mine had the same problem in windows 2000, not sure what the cause was. I

Entroper

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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2001, 02:24:57 PM »
Shrug.  Half-Life worked wonderfully in OpenGL with my Gateway straight out of the box.  ':)'  (TNT2 Ultra)  And over a year ago, my girlfriend bought a Dell with a GF256SDR, and it came with 6.31 detonators I believe.  I went ahead and installed 6.50 for her, but she probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't.

I know Gateway and Dell are tier 1 OEMs, but still.  I think an OEM does have the responsibility of making sure that the products they sell you work the way they should -- and that means providing OpenGL drivers for a 3D graphics card that supports OpenGL rendering.

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mendel

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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2001, 12:07:16 PM »
This question belongs in the "Problems" forum, not in "General Discussion".
If you'd read that, you'd find mention of it; it stems from the fact that the drivers MS shipd with XP have no OpenGL hardware accel; get the newest nvidia detonator XP (or whatever driver you need) and you'll be fine.

mendel

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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2001, 03:49:26 PM »
Entroper, I agree with you. When baggio writes: "Really, that is a good thing" he really means "that is economic for the OEM". For end users who don't need OpenGL support this economy is ok, since they pay less (supposedly). For those who purchase Pontifex and now have to spend their time trying to solve the problem, that's not the case.
It depends on what your interests are, and again, that is where companies differ - how they perceive the interests of their consumers.

On another note, supposedly providing support for something that then does not work so well in the way it is supported has been Microsoft's way in the case of more than one technology it did not like. Providing OpenGL without HW accel will make unwitting consumers experience that OpenGL=slow, direct3D=fast - which might look completely different if it was HW accelerated out of the box, or it was only supported if you downloaded the (accelerated) drivers.

Is this still Pontifex-related? Since Pontifex relies on OpenGL, I guess it is, in some way. I fear this could degenerate into a (brainless?) pro/con Microsoft debate, but I trust we bridgebuilders are above that ':)'.


beaujob

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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2001, 12:39:56 PM »
h4r h4r h4r!!!! M1cr0Ũf7 RULEZ!!!!!!!!!1
"And once again, the day is saved thanks to the Powerpuff Girls."

baggio

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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2001, 09:07:52 PM »
My bridge is better than your bridge... :biggrin:
beaujob: I wouldn't mind doing kung-fu in the shadow of a bridge that I built while death and a clown get it on in the bathtub next door, but that's a long ways off.

baggio

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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2001, 01:27:55 PM »
Quote: from beaujob on 1:39 pm on Oct. 28, 2001
h4r h4r h4r!!!! M1cr0Ũf7 RULEZ!!!!!!!!!1It's never been Microsoft's intent to provide OpenGL support OOB, they do after all make a competing technology called Direct X. ':)' Providing an OpenGL ICD is always a requirement of the videocard manufacturer.
beaujob: I wouldn't mind doing kung-fu in the shadow of a bridge that I built while death and a clown get it on in the bathtub next door, but that's a long ways off.

falkon2

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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2001, 01:32:18 AM »
Don't say that! If Bill Gates saw that post his ego'd flare up and he'd create Microsoft Auto-Bridge-Designer which automatically creates the cheapest bridges possible just to beat you. =)

Entroper

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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2001, 08:35:17 PM »
I suppose if you buy from an OEM, they'll have the drivers for all the hardware installed for you.  And if you build your own, it's your responsibility to install drivers.  Besides, I would think if you don't have the latest drivers for your videocard, Direct3D apps would also run incredibly slow, since it would all be emulated in software.
Entroper
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2001, 04:11:56 AM »
Yeah, but they'd crash.

baggio

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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2001, 04:31:30 PM »
Actually when you buy OEM, they don't typically bother with drivers from the videocard manufacturer either.  The drivers Out Of Box (OOB) work very well for the average user. In fact, if all you use the computer for are Direct X games, the OOB drivers will be the most recent drivers for you card for a while in most cases.

If you want to do more though, i.e. overclock your video, run OpenGL, tweak the contrast and saturation, adjust settings for AA, then the only way to gain access to those functions is by installing the manufactures drivers.

beaujob: I wouldn't mind doing kung-fu in the shadow of a bridge that I built while death and a clown get it on in the bathtub next door, but that's a long ways off.

Entroper

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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2001, 05:24:17 PM »
What I'm talking about IS the out of box drivers.  If an OEM is ordering lots of GeForce cards from a company, they're probably installing the drivers that come with the cards.  Those drivers do, or should, provide OpenGL support.
Entroper
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mendel

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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2001, 05:30:16 PM »
If a lazy OEM orders lots of gfx cards from a company, they're going to keep installing the driver they first installed when they started putting that model in, not bothering to upgrade their installation image for each new release.
(ok, I guess that's one criterium to divide the quality OEMs from the cheapskates ;-)