My ideal view of Gish+editor

[Jonathan_NL]

What would make Gish plus the editor much more versatile? (and take quite some time to implement)
- Levels should be able to have custom data.
- A custom file hierarchy for groups of levels, the levels itself, and their data.
- Pistons you have full control over (particularly start positions), and that extend/contract by the distance you enter, not something that is hard to correct if that isn't what you want.
- Java for custom stuff in levels (and everything else). It is relatively fast, safe, stable, object-oriented, multi-platform, easy to learn, you can use all classes that already exist (including java.lang.Math, of course), you can use security managers (including your own), developer tools are free, etc. I think it is possible in some way to use the existent VM on the system? About everything should be able to be replaced with Java classes, which should have full control over everything. That extends possibilities for advanced users a lot.
- Support for strings (including file names) inside levels. Probably with a TOC at the beginning of the file giving everything an ID, which is used in the rest of the level.
- Read the main thread about the editor.

Just my ideal world... may be over the top. I can try to create an initial file structure and format descriptions which might ease it a bit.

[DonutGuyX]

Here's what I would like to see:

-Ability to add custom tiles, enemies, etc. to a map and have them all saved in the single .lvl file so that people who download your map wouldn't have unzip things to a lot of different folders and then lose track of what originally came with the game and what didn't.
-Ability to modify Gish's size, color, mass, etc, both through triggers in the level and beforehand.
-Ability to create new rope types and set rope strength.
-Ability to create triggers/area switches that break ropes attached to a selected object or anchor point.
-Ability to create foreground tiles that push Gish in a specific x/y/z direction (like wind).
-Ability to set RGB values for individual tiles.
-Scroll speed option.
-Multiple degrees of zoom in the editor so that it's easier to see how much of the available map your level takes up and where things are in relation to each other.

[rammerizkool]

an extensive help thing, IN the gish editor... '>

[sniperGasMask]

i'd like to see a sound editor so you can choose your music  '>

[Jonathan_NL]

I'd say the name of a music file (or again, full control via Java. Does anyone know about reverse-usual-jni?).

[markr]

Come on guys, it's only a platform game, not a full-on game builder engine.

I see a lot of problems with the editor (documentation being a major one), but I have no problem believing that the existing levels were made with it.

True, there are some things that are difficult to do - try getting two switches to open one door for example (The reverse is straightforward).

But scripting is not IMHO necessary for a simple game like Gish.

[Jonathan_NL]

Quote (markr @ Oct. 18 2004,11:07)

Come on guys, it's only a platform game, not a full-on game builder engine.

It's not a standard platform game. It has a very realistic physics engine which takes some shapes and physical properties, and then just works right. That's where complexity and simplicity meet, and the only limit is your imagination (besides computer power). But there is a problem: YOU CAN'T GIVE ALL INPUT YOU WANT IN A GENERAL-PURPOSE FIXED FORMAT! And then you are suddenly very limited, while you can feel the power under the hood. Scripting (particularly Java, which is almost programming, but still interpreted) enables that interaction again.

I see a lot of problems with the editor (documentation being a major one)
A reference and a brain is all you need.

True, there are some things that are difficult to do - try getting two switches to open one door for example (The reverse is straightforward).
This is where it gets complex for a fixed format (but still possible), and scripting comes in. What you just mentioned is halfway to complex.

[Incessant-Logic]

• The ability to Run the editor outside of Gish so that you can have reference materials on a different screen.
  

[Jonathan_NL]

What do you mean? You can already have anything on any screen while Gish is running.

Yeah, that's true, but you have to Alt+Tab to get there (in Windows at least)... It's a bit annoying, and it sometimes also bugs up the level (everything appears as grey rectangles, and you have to load up the level again to get it back to normal)

[Jonathan_NL]

Gish isn't forced to fullscreen.

[Sword King 22]

Gish isn't forced to fullscreen.
Yes you can change it from the options menu.

Now about Java. When Edmund was making Gish one of the main points of design was to use as little scripting as possible. I know that the editor has some flaws,(I myself would like to see a dynamic water engine) but is scripting really a wise thing to ask for. I know eventually the level format will be released. But as long as people can use a simple-if unweildy-tool to create levels as good as anyone at diverge could make I'll be happy.

[Jonathan_NL]

As far as I know the level format isn't officially released, but it's definitely not unknown.

From what I know there were no plans to have no scripting. It's just that it was more work that simply wasn't done for that reason. Also, lately I'm not so fond of Java anymore, but it's still nice cross-platform and security-wise.

My whole idea was to get around hardcoded restrictions. We now have basic cyclic pistons that can be activated by a few actions, and that's it. No, wait, there are also lights that can flicker in a predetermined way.

[Sword King 22]

From what I know there were no plans to have no scripting. It's just that it was more work that simply wasn't done for that reason. Also, lately I'm not so fond of Java anymore, but it's still nice cross-platform and security-wise.

Yeah, I guess it would be cool to make it optional. I might even try it out.

[Connor]

Okay, here's some stuff:

- Rubber-bands
- Conveyor belts
- Pulleys
- Hollow Spheres